Goldfish Feeling Poorly

[jsoong]

pH of 8.2 is just fine for goldfish. They do prefer a bit higher pH, 7.5+.

Swollen belly is not a good sign. This is likely ascites - fluid buildup in the abdomen. This may be sign of kidney/other organ failure. Internal bacterial infection can certainly cause swimbladder disorder & eventually leading to other organ damage. <Other possibility would be gut impaction, a tumor, or possibly an abscess.>

One thing to check would be generalized fluid retention (aka dropsy). Check & see if his eyes are bulging or if the scales are sticking out (like a pinecone). Often ascites will progress to dropsy. <That is not a good sign.>

Of all the causes, the only one that might respond to treatment would be an internal bacterial infection. I am surprised that you can not get any over the counter anti-biotics. You might see if you can get kanamycin. There are recipes on making your own antibiotic food using that. I don't know if you can get Jungle's anti-bacterial/anti-parasitic food. That is becoming wildly available here, even in the chain pet stores. Using both together is another option.

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks for the advice,

He is swollen and I'm worried that it might be what you sugested. He's not rounded swollen, but more like only in certain parts of his abdomen. He has one single scale sticking out a tiny bit, you can only notice it if you look closely. Could it be because he's constipated? I noticed his poop was think and long yesterday. I will leave him with no food over the weekend I think. I will upload a pic tonight to you can see him.

I've searched and searched and I haven't found any antibiotic food for sale in the uk. The jungle stuff is defianately not for sale in the UK I'm pretty sure Kanamycin is not either which is a shame because the best treatment available seems to be the products from Waterlife like OCTOZIN or Myxazin. Do you recomend using one of these products if nothing else available? I'm currently treating him for finrot with Interpet Anti Fungus and Finrot, but the treatment will end on Monday and it is definately not helping with his swollen abdomen or his buoyancy problems which I assume are related so I really need to treat him for that. Do you suggest treating him with Myxazin or Octozin to help him?

Please let me know.

Many thanks for all your help.

[jsoong]

Constipation is a possibility, although it is not usually associated with finrot. However, there is no harm in treating for it. You might try to feed him peas after a day of fasting. <Shelled, blanched & chopped.> If the fish is bigger (say 3-4"+), you could be more aggressive & bury one grain of Epsom Salt (MgSO4) in the pea as a laxative if plain peas don't work.

I was doing a bit of research & it seems that OTC antibiotics are illegal in the UK. That is problematic as it will cost big money to get prescription meds for your fish from a vet.

I have no experience with Waterlife's meds. They are secretive on the ingredients so I can't make any intelligent comments. However, I would think that it would contain mostly dyes & other chemicals that are bactericidal. These are good for surface infections, but I don't think they do much for internal diseases.

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks for the quick reply. His poop is thinner than yesterday today and the same colour of his food, but it still trails for a long time and it's quite long (what does this mean?)

I think the last resort would be taking him to the vet. I don't really want to move him around, but if it's the only way to make him better then I'll do it. I do have a few more question and I would be most grateful if you could be advise on what you think the best step is for next week before taking him to the vet.

I'm gonna finish the current treatment (Interpet No on Monday. He's not getting worse which is a good sign like you said, but I'm unsure as to what I should do next. I am pretty sure that he will not be back to normal by Monday so I need to know what the next step would be best for him.

1) Should I do a normal water change after the treatment finishes or should it be a 50 % one?
2) Should I put another dose of the same treatment in for another 7 days to make sure that it has worked?
3) Should I leave him for a few days and change him to Myxazin which seems to be better and might treat him for the internal infection at the same time?
4) Should I leave him for a couple of days and treat him with Melafix which is suppose to encourage fin re-growth and help the healing process once the bad bacteria has been killed? - This would mean leving his internal infection untreated.
5) Should I leave him for a couple of days and treat him with aquarium salt only and see if he gets better just with salt, which I doubt because I think he has had this infection for a while.
6) Should I move him to another tank? The second tank is not cycled so I assume this is not an option because I don't want to put him under any unneeded stress.

Many thanks and sorry for asking so many questions and writing such long posts, I just don't want him to die because of my ignorance and later find out that I could have saved him if I had done thing differently.

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

In the fiirst picture I have highlighted the areas where it looks like there something inflamed inside pushing it out and it makes his other side look swollen, or it could be that becausehe is swollen on the other side it's pushing some organs on the marked areas.

In the second picture I have marked the same areas maybe you can see them better.

In the third picture I have highlighted the areas when he's got the lump that it's making his tail bent, but then again it could be the other reason like I said above about his other side being swollen. I also highlighted how his poop was today (long, but not a bad colour) and how his tail is looking today. Hopefully this pics will help a bit.

[jsoong]

This is a tough one to call ...

From the pics, I concluded:
1. The lump (fish's left) is unlikely to be ascites, it is too high (dorsal).
2. The location is about the level of the swim bladder. It is possible that it is the caudal lobe. But the SB is a midline structure, bulging out on one side ... less likely.
3. You might try to gently feel the lump if the fish is cooperative (wet hands, do it underwater). If it feels squishy, it is an abscess; Fleshy ones, prob tumors.
4. If the fish is permanently bent like in the pic, it is likely a muscular/skeletal problem. Some fish are genetically predisposed to bent back, but if this occurs relatively suddenly, it might be due to a tumor/abscess in the muscles or bone. It may also be a tuberculous granuloma. <fish tb>
5. The right side may be swollen, or it might just look like that with the fish bent. Can't really tell on the pics. Did it look more swollen to you compared to before?

What to do is the more difficult question ....
1. QTing the fish is good general principle, to prevent infecting the other fish, and to concentrate your treatment on the sick fish. OTOH, this is balanced against the harm of being in a smaller, uncycled tank. If your hospital tank is relatively big (10 gal +) and you have 2 filters on the main tank so you can take one to the hospital (making it cycled), then I say go for it. Otherwise, it is a toss up. It depends on how well you can maintain water quality in the hosp tank ... daily checking & large water changes is in order if you decided to go that route.
2. Adding/Switching meds - it is generally bad idea to switch to one med & then another without giving the meds time to work. I tend to stick to one treatment regime for 10-14 days & only switch if there is a clear indication.
3. I don't think water changes will hurt, but 50% prob not necessary at this time.
4. Adding salt might help. Personally, I use salt for most minor finrot & external parasites. Salt & clean water is as good as most meds for finrot IMO.
5. Long thin white poop (looks like mucous strings) indicates an internal gut infection. But if the poop is normal size & color of the food, it is prob just a bit of constipation.
6. Going to the vet - prob only worthwhile if the fish is valuable (at least to you). Unless that lump is a bacterial abscess, I am not sure if the vet can do too much if indeed the fish has bent back.

Sorry I don't have a definitive answer for you. It is a bit of guesswork as to what is causing the problem in your case.

[Andres98789]

Hi Jsoong,

Thanks fr the advice.

Today his tail seems to be much better and looks like it's growing back a bit at least (lets hope he carries on like that)

He's still just sitting at the bottom of the tank behind a rock all the time except when I feed them which is the only time that he swims around a bit, but then after eating he goes back to sitting at the bottom of the tank breathing a bit faster than normal.

His poop does look a lot more like mucous strings today. didn't feed them anything all weekend, but I still found him this morning with a very clear white poop. There's a bit of white in the middle of of the clear mucus like poop. What do you think it is? Gut infection or constipation? He looks bloated to me.

He's also not so crooked anymore, but still a bit. Hopefully that is a sign that he's recovering. I will give him a couple of days without medicines and then I'm very tempted to give him that Myxazin to treat any internal or gut infections he might have. Do you think the shrimp and garlic frozen food i'm giving him will help with the gut infection if that's what he's got?

Should I try just some salt first and see how it goes before rushing into treating him with myxazin?

I will post a couple of pics for you to have a look at him a bit later.

Many thanks,

[jsoong]

White mucousy poop often indicates internal gut infection. The best treatment is anti-biotic food. But since you can't get any, you might try the Myxazin if he isn't better in a few days.

Garlic & shrimp won't hurt. Garlic might even do some good. You might also try some peas/other veggies.

[Andres98789]

Hi,

I'll give him some peas tomorrow. I had a good look at his poop and it's actually long clear mucus like poop with a very thin zig zag white line inside.
I read this somewhere: ''Zig Zag and clear long poop =-possibly dispersing absorbed eggs'' I don't think that's right in my fish's case do you? The clear mucus is not acctually in a zig zag shape, but the think white poop inside is. What does this mean?

I also had a good look at him and his eyes are bulging out more than normal (one more than the other) I did a little research and it says it can be for a number of reasons, one of the reasons being that the water is over-saturated and a sign of this is that you can see tiny bubbles in the water and I can see them. The first time I noticed them was on Wednesday last week after I put the first dose of medication in so I thought it was due to the medication, but it could also be because of the 50% water change I did on Tuesday. How can I fix the water so it's not over-saturated before he gets worse with his eyes? Could this als be due to the internal bacterial infection that he seems to have judging by his poop and by the way he just stays at the bottom of the tank all days except when feeding?

He looks a lot better with not being crooked so much anymore and his tail seems to be growing back a bit, but now he's got this eye problem and he's definately not feeling well.

What does his poop mean? How can I fix the water so it's not over-saturated? can I treat his eye problem with Myxazin as this seems to be the closest thing to antibiotics that we can get here?

Thank you very much!

[jsoong]

You only get water with supersaturated gases if you get it from a deep well. You can let it out gas by aerating it in a bucket overnight before putting it in your tank. <And if it is the cause, you should see it in both eyes & all your fish ....>

"popeye" is more likely an infection. It can be an early sign of dropsy, or can be a sign of an internal parasite. Retained eggs casing looks like a string of little sausages - a string of white mucous with regular little bumps. Is that what you are seeing?

The big picture - lethargy, finrot, lump on side, bent tail, buoyancy problem, white stringy poop, ? popeye, ? swollen side - certainly seem more like an internal ailment than something innocuous. Whether it is bacterial, parasite, or other causes I can't say.

I normally don't treat every little thing I see on my fish. <Clean water will cure most ailments!> But when this many things are wrong, I think treatment is warranted.