Goldfish problem

[MurfQ]

Hey Everyone,

I have an issue with one of my goldfish that I hope someone can give me some insight on. For some time now, Hobbes (a fantail) has been hanging around the bottom and/or hiding out in a plant a lot and exhibiting very little activity. However, he still goes full steam at feeding time, so his appetite is definitely not affected. Recently, I've noticed some red veining in his tail. And even more recently, I noticed that his beautiful long flowing tail now seems to be shredded.

Of course, my first thought when I started to notice his change in behaviour was water quality issues. However, numerous tests have come back negative for ammonia and nitrite, and the nitrates are well within safe limits. The pH seems good for goldfish at around 7.5. I've been wondering if there is actually an ammonia or nitrite problem and my test kits are no longer working properly. Do they expire over time? I've had the kits for approximately 3 years now.

Hobbes shares his tank (25 gallons) with 2 other goldfish, who do not seem to be affected by whatever is causing his problem. It also has an asian filter shrimp and a half dozen nerite snails. As well as a couple of live plants. Nothing new has been added to the tank in a couple of years. Hobbes has been there for close to 4 years now and as weathered quite a bit in the early months when I knew diddly squat about what was involved in keeping any type of fish, much less goldies.

Any suggestions on what might be happening and anything I can do to get things back on track?

Normally, I would probably add a little salt, but if I understand correctly salt, even in small amounts, would be detrimental to my shrimp, snails, and plants. Am I correct in assuming this? Are any medications like melafix or anything of that nature safe to use with shrimp, snails and live plants in the tank?

I unfortunately am not equiped with a suitable hospital tank, so if he had to be removed and treated seperately the best I could do would be a bucket. For obvious reasons, I would like to avoid this if at all possible.

 

[mike47517]

the other fish could be nipping at him get a divider that oughta do the trick.

 

[Zagz]

Your test kits are likely expired. They do have a shelf life of usually one year. They should have an expiry date on them.

I would perform a water change for starters and yes you can add melafix to the water with no side effects to plants or snails.

 

[jsoong]

I doubt that it is fin nipping - lethargy for one would indicate illness.

Fin shredding is likely secondary to stress from something else. First thing I'd do is a largish water change, even if the water tests OK. There may be other wastes accumulating that is not measured by the kits (organic, etc.)

Ideally, you would want to quarantine the fish. A bucket is OK as long as you can set up some kind of filtration in it. <There is also Jo-Ann's bucket-to bucket method - you move the fish to fresh clean water everyday, so no need for filters or anything in your hospital setup.> My first treatment choice would also be salt. You'd need to do that outside of your main tank - plants will not do well with salt. You can treat with salt in a hospital setup, or do daily salt dips in your bucket.

Red veining in tail usually indicates some kind of internal infection - either bacterial or parasites. A lot of the parasites are responsive to salt (0.3% 24/7 or 0.5-1.0% as a dip for 20 minutes or so). But if the fish don't respond to salt within a day or 2, I'd start treating with antibiotics or anti-parasite drugs. To minimize polluting the tank, I usu. use food containing the drug. Kanamycin is now the preferred antibiotic for goldies. <It is also well absorbed from the water so can be used in water if the fish is not eating.> If the fish don't get better on antibiotics, I would then add anti-parasite treatment, presumming an internal parasitic infection. I use Jungle's anti-parasite food, which contains Praziquental & Metronidazole - 2 preferrred anti-parasite drugs. <Metronidazole is a pretty good antibiotic as well.>

 

[MurfQ]

Ok, I've moved him into a 5 gallon bucket complete with HOB filter. I've added 2 tbs of salt, but I don't know how much more I need to add to bring it up to .3%? I've also added melafix and pimafix since I had them on hand and figured it couldn't hurt. Once I figure out the amount, I'll bring the salt concentration up to .3% and see how it goes for a couple of days before I resort to stronger medicines. Assuming he makes a full recovery from whatever is doing this to him, will his badly damage tail grow back?

 

[MurfQ]

Oh, and I'm going to do a fairly large water change on the main tank and add melafix and pimafix even though the other fish aren't showing any symptoms. Better safe than sorry. I guess I'll have to try and get out soon and pick up some new test kits.

 

[jsoong]

0.3% salt = 3 g per liter or 12 g per gallon.

In 5 gal that would be 60 g or approx 2 oz. It is generally best to bring the salt level up slowly over 24 hrs.

It is best to weigh the salt (as a teaspoon of coarse salt weigh less than that of fine salt). However, 1 teaspoon fine salt is approx 6 g, so you would need a total of 10 teaspoons, a bit more if you are using coarse salt.

As far as tail growing back, it depends on how much of the tail is gone. Generally, if the base of the tail & the ray structures are intact, it will grow back slowly.

And don't forget to check the NH3/NO2 levels of the bucket. You'll need to do water changes if the filter is not cycled <and add an appropriate amount of salt to your change water to keep salt level constant.>

 

[MurfQ]

Thanks for all the help. I'm going to pick up a couple of new test kits today (in case the ones I have are no longer working properly) and I'll definitely be keeping a close check on the bucket. The filter should have some bacteria built up, but it might not be enough to handle a goldie. It was on my 10 gallon, which currently houses only a couple of neons and some plants.

 

[mike47517]

your welcome i know i wasnt the best help but i didnt completly under stand.

 

[mike47517]

ok any way though good luck. :]

 

[RoseHippi]

It is proable time for a bigger tank. Goldfish can start out with 10 gallons each but as they grow they need much more. 15 each is much better.
Also make sure you have lots of filteration. 10xgph is best more if you can.