Help! Disease in tank is driving me mad

[Liz]

Hi

I'm having a bit of a disaster with my fish at the moment. I bought two new fish 4 weeks ago from the LFS and after 2 weeks my fish ALL got Ich. (Never again am I buying any more fish from that shop, thats twice i've had this problem - i'm also getting a quarantine tank before i get any more fish). I have been treating for two and a half weeks and have so far lost 2 fish (the new ones). However, today one of my goldfish has new symptoms has what appears to be fluffy white sheets over the underside of his body and on his head. The fluff is hanging off the fish and when the fish swims some of it floats off. I have absolutely no idea what this stuff is.

My new fishes started off with raised bumps of white salt like grains on their bodies. the other fish were darting around and rubbing and flashing so I treated for Ich. The fins on my goldfish then turned red and their fins are now clamped. My pleco is quite but otherwise has no visible symptoms.

I did have a planted tank but after 2 bouts of Ich you couldn't really describe it as that anymore. My water parameters were all fine yesterday and I shall check them again now. I am treaing with Formalin (because of my pleco).

I hate to see my fish suffer and I don't want to loose anymore. I realise that ich usually gives rise to secondary infections and this may be one but what is it and how do I treat it?

Hope someone can help me.
Liz

 

[Allivymar]

Yep. That sucks.

Lets start off with your water parameters; whats the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels? It could be the ammonia has spiked and the sloughing off of the slime coat is a response to ammonia burns.

 

[Liz]

I'm about to go check them (water parameters) again now.

I've looked at him again this morning - he looks like hes got white fur on the majority of his body. My 3 other fish are all really quiet but none of them have the same white fur. The other 2 goldfish have red fins and a couple of white spots on their tail as well as a few missing scales from rubbing on the gravel etc.

Its unlikely to be the water parameters but I shall go check again.
Any suggestions would be very helpful. Could it be a fungus thing?

Thanks
Liz

15g (was planted hardly describe it as that now)- 3 goldfish and one common pleco - UGF and powerful air pump.
I'm just in the process of setting up a new 50g planted tank especially for them aswell - so it really is s*ds law that i've lost a few and am struggling with the others. I also have a 3g hexafun with 2 goldfish fry) and 2 snails but am desperately trying not to cross-contaminate tanks.

 

[Liz]

Well I've ruled out the ammonia spike theory.
Ammonia levels 0 - I even tested the test kit to check that it was still working! I wold have thought in any event if it was an ammonia spike my pleco would have suffered first as I've heard these fishes are very sensitive to ammonia levels.
Nitrite/nitrate levels both fine too

Any other ideas?

Liz

 

[Allivymar]

Ok good; one less thing to worry bout atm.

My next guess is fungal infection. It could also be columnaris, which sorta looks like a fungal infection but generally doesn't get fuzzy, and is actually a bacterial infection. Then again, the red areas indicate either high levels of stress or septicemia. Urgh.

Its hard to say without actually seeing the fish, but you can take a look here and see if any of the pics match what you are seeing: http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html

There are pics of a bunch of infections, so you can compare. My guess is you have 2 infections cruising around in there; a fungal and a bacterial. There are some meds which treat both, but (sorry) I'll be damned if I can remember the names (just woke up). I suggest sending a PM to Terry; he's another advisor and is over on your side of the pond. He may know whats available over there (especially since he runs a lfs).

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Liz]

Thanks for your post Allivymar,

I've had a look at the site you suggested and, as you suggested, it does look like I have 2 infections - body fungus and hemorrhagic septicemia. I'm guessing that these must be secondary infections to the Ich. I did a partial water change earlier but unfortunately my poor goldfish "chip" looked awful and I didn't hold out a lot of hope for him. He was literally covered head to tail with this fluffy body fungus and his dorsal and tail fin were almost non existant. He died not long after

I'm about to treat with King British fin rot and fungus control in the hope that my other fish don't suffer the same fate (one already has a little fluff growing near her gills and her fins are damaged). I'm just hoping I've got rid of the Ich that I started with and I'm not too late.

If you remember the name of that treatment for both fungus and bacteria please let me know.

Thanks again for your help and I'll let you know if I have any more developments - good or bad. I'll also see about contacting Terry.

Liz

 

[Allivymar]

I can't seem to find out what the active ingredients in the King British stuff are; does it say on the package? I ask because columnaris, as I mentioned before, is also known as mouth fungus and many meds are made to treat it. Problem is, it is NOT a true fungus (just kinda looks like one sometimes), and the meds actually contain antibacterials, which will certainly help treat columnaris but won't do anything for a true fungal infection. As for the other, I have a mental block sorry.

 

[Liz]

Hello again,

The active ingredient is phenoxyethanol - it says it treats " fin rots and fungal infections ... and can be used to treat bruised mouths and damaged body tissue"

I have no idea on fungal treatment medications as I have never encountered anything like this disease before.

If you've got any better ideas or knowledge of this stuff please let me know - sometimes knowing how things work helps understand how to treat - if that makes any sense to you.

 

[Allivymar]

Be very careful with the phenoxyethanol; at low doses it is an antifungal, but at higher doses its used to anesthetize and euthanise fish!

I also don't think it will help with the bacterial infection. A broad spectrum antibiotic like tetracycline or kanacyn would be a better route to go for the septecemia, although of course you need to treat the fungus too (and they will not help there).

 

[Liz]

Thanks for the tip. I spoke to Terry as you suggested and he's also been very helpful. I'm going to see how it goes with this phenoxyethanol and then ammend my strategy if needs be. I'm always careful when I use meds anyway, as if you get it wrong it can do more harm than good. I hope that you and Terry won't mind if I contact you for further advice?
I'm going to the LFS today (a different one to the one that has caused all this grief) so I shall have a look at the range of meds available.

Thanks again.
Liz

Tank update: Though theres no real change, they're all still very quiet, - one goldfish was hungry this morning - a good sign I hope!?

 

[Allivymar]

Eating is always a positive, especially if the fish weren't showing interest before

As for further advice *grin* this IS Aquariumadvice; tis what we're here for. Keep the questions n comments comin!