HELP! My new fish may be stressed (a little)!

[Firstfish]

I bought a used aquarium system last year. I thought I was doing everything correctly by taking my time setting it up. A few months ago I placed gravel and water and started running the filter in it. I then introduced plants (and the stowaway snails) to the aquarium, and they've been growing great.

The suction cups on the heater were shot and I kept forgetting to bring it in ot get new ones, and finally did that this last week. After giving a couple of days for the temperature to come up and stabilize, I bought my first fish, some zebra danios.

I was recommended since the aquarium has actually be running for quite awhile to do a partial water change before adding the fish. I used some Aqua Plus water conditioner as part of the water change (I did about a 25% change). The fish have been in there for 2 days now, and I'm noticing that their gills are turning red. They don't otherwise look too stressed, a couple appear worse that the rest, with quite red gills and swimming a little slower.

Is there anything I can do to help out the poor little fish while waiting for things to equalize? Should I feed them while they are like this, or can that stress them more?

I can't find any advice on what to do at this point, should I hang in there and hope for the best or take some kind of action? I would appreciate some advice.

Thanks in advance!

 

[LittlePuff]

It's ammonia burn. Your tank is starting to cycle. Do some water changes to keep the ammonia, nitrites down during your cycle. Waiting to put fish in the water only ages the water if you don't cycle it and keep it cycled until you put the fish in.

Kim

 

[TomK2]

Welcome to AA Firstfish!

Like Littlepuff, I am concerned that the snails in you tank did not provide enough ammonia for the tanks bio-filter to become established well enough to support fish. Now that you have danios in there, I bet you have some ammonia. I would recommend that you:

1. check out the articles section on the nitrogen cycle
2. buy a FW test kit that has ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and pH tests ($15 online)
3. be prepared to do some frequent water changes if the ammonia level is high. you might want to invest in a python water changer.

Danios are hardy, and will likely survive the ammonia and nitrite poisoning, but have pity on the poor little devils and try to keep the levels low enough so they do not suffer.

 

[Firstfish]

Thanks to both of you! I've read tonnes about cycling water in aquariums, but could not find any information about the effects to look for on fish and what to do in the days (and weeks) after adding the fish, other than "wait 6 weeks before adding more fish."

I've already done a water change (very small change as I only had a small amount of tap water that has been sitting out, I'm getting more buckets out). I also figured I need to buy a water test kit since posting here (funny, I don't remember noticing that as a recommended purchase when setting up an aquarium, it should be!)

I've also read now about fishless cycling, how come I didn't find that before I bought the fish????

Yes, I feel sorry for the little fish too. That's why I sought out advice, because sitting and waiting seemed like NOT the best I can do for them.

Thanks again!
Johanna

 

[TomK2]

You could also make things eeasier by reducing the number of fish in the tank, if thats an option. I don't know how many fish you added, and how large the tank is, and if you have access to other tanks to put the fish in while you get things solved. Basically, within days ammonia begins to rise, this can last for several weeks, and then later the nitrite rises. The effects of ammonia poisoning in fish are well documented. These effects include: extensive damage to tissues, especially the gills and kidney; physiological imbalances; impaired growth; decreased resistance to disease, and death. Nitrite poisoning inhibits the uptake of oxygen by red blood cells by altering the hemoglobin and causing methemoglobinemia. This problem is much more severe in fresh water fish than in marine organisms. The presence of chloride ions (CL-) appears to inhibit the accumulation of nitrite in the blood stream.

So, gill damage and oxygen starvation are the one two punch of new tank syndrome . Sluggish fish, rapid breathing, poor feeding, gasping for air at the surface, red gills, fish death, are a few symptoms.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You don't have to set your water out to age before adding it to the tank. Add tap water that is the same temp as the tank to the tank and add dechlor. Don't worry, it won't kill the fish.

 

[Firstfish]

Hello again all knowing ones. Here is some interesting information for you, and a request for further advice!

I have a 15 gallon tank, and I added 8 danios (4 each of two different types). I actually thought I had a 20 or 25 gallon tank, I probably would have started with fewer if I had realized the exact size of my tank (and probably had opted to buy a bigger one as well).

Anyhow, I bought a water test kit today, and just completed the tests, and here are the results:

pH= 8.0 (!!!!!)
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 5 (!!!!!)

Boy was I surprised at those results! I was elated to find the Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate in proper balance, but the scientific mind in me wanted to find the root of the high pH. I tested my tap water (the stuff I've had sitting in a container all day, so most of the clorine should have disipated from it). The pH of the standing tap water was 6.6.

OK, so where is the alkalinity coming from? I then tried adding a small amount of my water conditioner (to the test tube), and the pH shot right up!

I've now added some or the acidic water to my tank to hopefully netralize the tank a bit. I'll retest shortly.

So, any sage advice on how to neutralize tap water? The declorinator/conditioner stuff says it helps protect fish in moves, but it's clearly damaged them, any one else have this happen?

Also, I have a HOB filter, and I noticed the fish had a hard time swimming through the current it creates. While at the pet store we saw that it's actually recommended for 50 gallon tanks, so would it be better for me to buy a new smaller filter that is appropriately sized for the tank? Or perhaps I should buy a tank that's appropriately sized for the filter ;-P

Thanks again.

 

[TomK2]

Your nitrate reading this early means you have nitrate in your tap water, most likely. you will have to see the nitrates increas to know when your cycle is done. 8 danios in a 15 gal tank will most certainly cause an ammonia rise, if the filter was not otherwise seeded. Use only a quality liquid reagent FW kit, such as from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Test strips are notoriously inaccurate.

There was another thread recently about dechlorinators raising the pH. It turned out that the tester made a mistake, and that it was not really the case. Dechlorinators are weak acids, so i find it hard to beleive the pH would raise. You would have to dose the standing water with the proper dose of dechlor, and see that water rise to be certain. even a tiny drop of dechlor in a test tube is a massive overdose.

Take some tap water (lets say 5 gallons) and let it stand overnight in a clean container. Aerate if you can. Measure the pH. Then put in the appropriate dechlor dose. give it a while to equilibrate, then test the pH again. I would expect little change.

If your tap water is really in the 6's, and your tank is 8, then there something in the tank to raise the pH, and the dechlor wouldn't be on the top of my list.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I agree with Tom. It has to be something in the tank. What kind of substrate are you using? Do you have any seashells in the tank? What type of rocks? Dechlorinator in itself will not raise the pH unless it is one of those dechlors that sets the pH for you.

What is the brand of test kit that you are using?

 

[Firstfish]

Ok, more info:

I'm using gravel in the bottom, about 2" deep, so I can root plants. I'd say it's 2-4 mm diameter (sorry, don't know the imperical measure, 1/8-1/4" perhaps?). It was bought from the store as "aquarium gravel" which I rinsed thoroughly before I added, and was added at least two or three months ago (so it's been in there awhile). I have 4 plants, two potted, two direct rooted in the gravel. I'm not using any "leaded" or other metal weights. I only have items I bought from the pet store in there, no rocks, shells or anything fancy. I wanted to keep it basic until I got fish settled in.

The test kit is called "Freshwater Master Test kit" made by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc. Unfortunately I don't see expiry dates for the kit anywhere. I actually thought about the freshness of the kit as I was doing the pH tests, out of date pH strips can produce inaccurate results, but I don't know about the liquid solution kind. I'm rather frustrated that there isn't any date marking on the box or the solution bottles (I paid $45 for that test kit). I just checked out their website, not very helpful.

Oh yeah, I've redone a pH test on the aquarium, no change. I'm afraid to do more water changes in case I'm doing more harm than good.

The water conditioner is called "Aqua Plus" tap water conditioner by Nutrafin. The pet shop I buy everything from (and get my "expert" advice from) uses it by the gallon full to treat all their water.

I should make a mention of the store I go to as well. It is the top rated aquarium shop in Vancouver, British Columbia. They don't just do fish there, they do other things as well, and I used to go to another pet store to get feeders for my anoles, but after trying there, I was so impressed, I never go anywhere else. Anyone I know of that has had aquariums (and other pet store needs) say it's the best. I even found sites on the internet that say it's the best in this area (I cannot find those sites now, I didn't book mark them, doh!)

I have a question, I agree that 8 fish in a 15 gal tank will produce ammonia, but wouldn't that show up in the tests after 2 days (unless I have a total bad test kit)?

I'm wondering what my options are now. I don't feel I (or more speciafically the fish) would have time to wait for a different testing kit to arrive via ordering over the internet. I live in a large city, I must be able to get some kind of diagnostic locally.

Thanks yet again, I await any further suggestions.

 

[greenmaji]

While your waiting for your testkit to arive by mail you can take a water sample to a local fish store and have it tested.. getting a sample of your tapwater tested for nitrate would be a good idea as well.. HTH

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I agree with GM. Take water to the lfs. www.bigalsonline.com is a great place to shop for test kits. I don't know the Canadian price offhand, but the AP test Kit is $12 US before shipping. Your kit could be outdated. AP doesn't put expiration dates on their kits and I wish they would.

 

[Firstfish]

Oh my gosh!!!!!

I know the problem!!!!

I had placed 2 10lb bags of gravel in my tank. When I got plants and planted them, there wasn't enough depth to root them well. I went back to the store to get another bag, but they were out of the matching kind I had gotten, so I bought a slightly different kind. When I was rinsing it, I noticed it had lots of little sea shell bits in it. There are the shells and the source of alkalinity!!!!!

So now I say "oh crap." I bought the wrong kind of gravel, too many fish, and now I have a small disaster on my hands. Not to mention the life of 8 cute, and increasingly stressed, little fish in my care.

I tested my water again today. The tap water is fine (pH of 6.8, everything else is 0). The tank water pH appears *slightly* lower than yesterday (7.8 perhaps), and there could be a trace amount of ammonia (wasn't quite yellow, but far less than 0.25 ppm green colour). No nitrites and 5ppm nitrates.

I did a ~10% water change this morning, they seem to enjoy that. I also found the owners manual for my filter on-line (didn't have one because I bought the system used) and adjusted the flow, they seem to enjoy not being blasted sideways across the tank.

Well, I stayed up to the wee hours of the morning reading everything I could, finally clicked in this morning where the problem is. I remember seeing a thread here on removing gravel from a tank with fish in it. I'll go read that now. Any further advice would be much appreciated.

I really thank all of you with all your help and insite. Without all you helpful internet folk I would be totally lost (and probably have dead fish).

Thanks again.

 

[TomK2]

(I paid $45 for that test kit).

Ouch! They go for about $15 online. Oh well, live and learn. Plus you seem like the concientous type who wouldn't want to wait the 3 to 5 days to help your fish just to save a few bucks, so I commend you. for paying $30 too much just to help your fish faster, I give you 30 kudos!

 

[Hmbre97]

Most LFS's offer free water testing. I'd call em up and see if they would do that for you.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

A test kit is still needed even if the lfs does free water testing. That way you don't have to always drive to the lfs just to have water checked. Some places just use strips, which are known for their inaccuracy.