Help needed fast please
- Thread starter Barbs
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
I am so sorry about your loss. After you have a fish for a few years, they are really more like family ...
I don't know what those white balls are ....they may be ich cysts ... you can only identify that with a microscope. If they are cysts, that is a really heavy infestation ... and you may well have lots hiding in your gravel in the hosp tank. It is important to really vacuum out the gravel (or get rid of it altogether) to reduce the ich load.
Sometimes ich hide in the gills of the fish, and you don't see many external spots. If you have not disposed of Iggy yet, it would be useful to do an inspection of the gills to see if there are spots. The ich can get so bad in the gills that the fish suffocates.
I've had good results treating ich with salt in the past. Here's an article on how:
Goldfish and Aquarium Board Article-Treating Ich with Salt
A few additional comments:
1. bring up the salt level slowly ... 0.1% every 12 hrs till you get to 0.3%.
2. dissolve the salt in water first ... goldies like to eat the salt grains & that burns their mouth.
3. when doing water changes, match the current salt level in the tank as well as temp.
With a heavy ich infestation, it might be advantageous to do Ingrid's "tub to tub" method. You use 2 tubs, both with clean (dechlorinated) water of identical composition. You put the fish in tub 1 in day 1. Next day (or sooner if the water condition in tub 1 deteriorates), move him (& heater/filter) to tub 2. <Do not net the fish ... that is stressful. Instead, submerge a small bowl in the water & gently scoop up the fish so he is never out of the water.> Clean out tub 1 & refill with clean water ... so you are ready to transfer the fish back to tub 1 when tub 2 gets messed up. Repeat .....
Advantage of the tub-to-tub method is that you leave all the ich cysts behind so you don't reinfect the fish. Also, you take care of your water changes at the same time, and you always have a tub of clean water ready to transfer the fish into at a moment's notice. And with a daily water change like that, ammonia don't have a chance to build up, nor do you have accumulating waste at the bottom to give you spikes. <BTW, 0.25 of ammonia is OK, I won't stress out too much if you can keep it below 0.5.>
Some people do the tub-to tub for the entire duration of treatment, although I think that a few days of that until you significantly reduced the ich load is adaquate. I would, however, maintain salt level for at least 2 weeks after ich is gone, and then gradually reduce that back to zero over a few days.
As for the plant ... it won't survive salt. If it is valuable, you can sterilize it or QT it. Standard sterirization for plants is 1:10 bleach for 30-60 seconds. Then rinse really well with dechlorinated water. <Do not bleach the roots, and some plants like Vals & hornwort will not survive bleaching.> Alternative is to QT the plant. If you leave the plant in a tub without fish for 2 weeks, it should be safe to return to the main tank. Ich & mos tparasites cannot survie without a fish host for that length of time.
I don't know what those white balls are ....they may be ich cysts ... you can only identify that with a microscope. If they are cysts, that is a really heavy infestation ... and you may well have lots hiding in your gravel in the hosp tank. It is important to really vacuum out the gravel (or get rid of it altogether) to reduce the ich load.
Sometimes ich hide in the gills of the fish, and you don't see many external spots. If you have not disposed of Iggy yet, it would be useful to do an inspection of the gills to see if there are spots. The ich can get so bad in the gills that the fish suffocates.
I've had good results treating ich with salt in the past. Here's an article on how:
Goldfish and Aquarium Board Article-Treating Ich with Salt
A few additional comments:
1. bring up the salt level slowly ... 0.1% every 12 hrs till you get to 0.3%.
2. dissolve the salt in water first ... goldies like to eat the salt grains & that burns their mouth.
3. when doing water changes, match the current salt level in the tank as well as temp.
With a heavy ich infestation, it might be advantageous to do Ingrid's "tub to tub" method. You use 2 tubs, both with clean (dechlorinated) water of identical composition. You put the fish in tub 1 in day 1. Next day (or sooner if the water condition in tub 1 deteriorates), move him (& heater/filter) to tub 2. <Do not net the fish ... that is stressful. Instead, submerge a small bowl in the water & gently scoop up the fish so he is never out of the water.> Clean out tub 1 & refill with clean water ... so you are ready to transfer the fish back to tub 1 when tub 2 gets messed up. Repeat .....
Advantage of the tub-to-tub method is that you leave all the ich cysts behind so you don't reinfect the fish. Also, you take care of your water changes at the same time, and you always have a tub of clean water ready to transfer the fish into at a moment's notice. And with a daily water change like that, ammonia don't have a chance to build up, nor do you have accumulating waste at the bottom to give you spikes. <BTW, 0.25 of ammonia is OK, I won't stress out too much if you can keep it below 0.5.>
Some people do the tub-to tub for the entire duration of treatment, although I think that a few days of that until you significantly reduced the ich load is adaquate. I would, however, maintain salt level for at least 2 weeks after ich is gone, and then gradually reduce that back to zero over a few days.
As for the plant ... it won't survive salt. If it is valuable, you can sterilize it or QT it. Standard sterirization for plants is 1:10 bleach for 30-60 seconds. Then rinse really well with dechlorinated water. <Do not bleach the roots, and some plants like Vals & hornwort will not survive bleaching.> Alternative is to QT the plant. If you leave the plant in a tub without fish for 2 weeks, it should be safe to return to the main tank. Ich & mos tparasites cannot survie without a fish host for that length of time.
Last edited:
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
One more thing ... once you get the big tank cycled, it is good to keep a spare filter (I just put an extra pad in the main filter) to use as QT/hospital. You will then have a cycled setup anytime you need one. For a hospital tank, the filter might get killed with meds, so you still need to monitor & do water changes. But starting with a cycled tank is much easier on you & the fish.
Barbs
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
After another sleepless night, I got up to find more devastating news - Ziggy passed away during the night in the big bucket I set up 
. I can't believe both our beautiful black moors are gone, it's so upsetting. As you said, they were part of the family and it's very sad not to have them around anymore. As suggested by our son, we buried them in a box in the back garden as he wants to be able to 'visit' them every day ! I'm consoling myself with the fact that they aren't suffering anymore.
Anyway...The same white balls were in the bottom of the bucket when he passed away, so whatever it was both of them had it. I guess it could have been ich cysts as they both had excessive slime-coats too. I couldn't examine their gills as they had been buried before I read this. I had noticed a small yellow dot in the middle of the white balls when I examined them, that's all I can tell you I'm afraid.
I like the idea of the tub to tub, if anything happens the other guys I think I'll use this method. I have two buckets exactly the same that hold 23 litres, so I'm sure I could use those. Fingers x'd I won't need to anytime soon though!
I bought aquarium salt today just to have to hand in-case the others become infected again. So far they're looking ok, ich spots are improving immensely, they're swimming, eating & pooping as normal. I'll do another water change tomorrow and a re-dose of meds as necessary. The water parameters are good- PH- 7.6, Ammonia- 0, Nitrate- 0, Nitrite- 0. I Know I don't have any Nitrates yet but this could be due to meds or cycling, as mentioned before.
I'm going to qt the plant before I put it back in the big tank. It's inexpensive, but I only got it two weeks ago and haven't seen one like it in the lfs before (possibly because I usually miss out on the good stuff though!). I reckon I'll dump the gravel as I won't need it for the qt tank anyway. I'm going to have to disinfect all the equipment though. After reading a few threads, I'm going to go with the bleach, 1 part bleach to 9 parts water and rinse really well. I need to put the thermometer etc back into the big tank so I can't wait around and let them dry out.
Also I'm going to put some filter media into the big tank filter so it's ready to go if I need to use the qt filter again. It would be a big help, rather than starting from scratch again. I only know 2 people with tanks and both are tropical, I'm not sure if it would affect my tank but I'd rather not take a chance and seed from those.
As always, your help & advice is much much appreciated. Pity there wasn't a happy ending but all I could do was try my best. Right now I'm just concentrating on getting the others better. I can't wait for the day when I have a healthy tank!
Thanks & regards,
Barbs.
. I can't believe both our beautiful black moors are gone, it's so upsetting. As you said, they were part of the family and it's very sad not to have them around anymore. As suggested by our son, we buried them in a box in the back garden as he wants to be able to 'visit' them every day ! I'm consoling myself with the fact that they aren't suffering anymore.Anyway...The same white balls were in the bottom of the bucket when he passed away, so whatever it was both of them had it. I guess it could have been ich cysts as they both had excessive slime-coats too. I couldn't examine their gills as they had been buried before I read this. I had noticed a small yellow dot in the middle of the white balls when I examined them, that's all I can tell you I'm afraid.
I like the idea of the tub to tub, if anything happens the other guys I think I'll use this method. I have two buckets exactly the same that hold 23 litres, so I'm sure I could use those. Fingers x'd I won't need to anytime soon though!
I bought aquarium salt today just to have to hand in-case the others become infected again. So far they're looking ok, ich spots are improving immensely, they're swimming, eating & pooping as normal. I'll do another water change tomorrow and a re-dose of meds as necessary. The water parameters are good- PH- 7.6, Ammonia- 0, Nitrate- 0, Nitrite- 0. I Know I don't have any Nitrates yet but this could be due to meds or cycling, as mentioned before.
I'm going to qt the plant before I put it back in the big tank. It's inexpensive, but I only got it two weeks ago and haven't seen one like it in the lfs before (possibly because I usually miss out on the good stuff though!). I reckon I'll dump the gravel as I won't need it for the qt tank anyway. I'm going to have to disinfect all the equipment though. After reading a few threads, I'm going to go with the bleach, 1 part bleach to 9 parts water and rinse really well. I need to put the thermometer etc back into the big tank so I can't wait around and let them dry out.
Also I'm going to put some filter media into the big tank filter so it's ready to go if I need to use the qt filter again. It would be a big help, rather than starting from scratch again. I only know 2 people with tanks and both are tropical, I'm not sure if it would affect my tank but I'd rather not take a chance and seed from those.
As always, your help & advice is much much appreciated. Pity there wasn't a happy ending but all I could do was try my best. Right now I'm just concentrating on getting the others better. I can't wait for the day when I have a healthy tank
!Thanks & regards,
Barbs.
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
I am sorry to hear about the moors. You certainly did your best for the fish.
As for the big tank, do keep an eye out for ammonia/nitrites. It is quite possible that the tank need to cycle again with the addition of meds.
I am hoping that you will have an easier time with the rest of the fish.
As for the big tank, do keep an eye out for ammonia/nitrites. It is quite possible that the tank need to cycle again with the addition of meds.
I am hoping that you will have an easier time with the rest of the fish.
Barbs
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Thanks jsoong. Unfortunately we lost another one this morning, what a week it has been! She was a lovely little white globe eye named Pearl, we only had her a few weeks. I was setting up to do a pwc and noticed she wasn't her usual self so I thought it best to keep an eye on her.
After the pwc, I re-dosed the meds, hoping she'd perk up a bit, but no joy. She had a few ich spots (that were getting better), became lethargic, hid in the plants and wouldn't eat, all in the space of a few hours. She was breathing fairly rapidly and tried her best to swim once or twice but mainly let the current take her. I turned off the lights yesterday evening so she could rest. She settled under a plant, resting against an ornament. This morning I found her stuck in the plant, she wasn't breathing.
I had a good look at her but all I could see was a few faint ich spots and it looks like her anal fin had deteriorated in the middle and all that was left were the rays. I didn't notice that last night when I checked her out and it doesn't look like fin rot or like the others had been nipping her. Other than that she looked normal.
I tested the water last night, same results again, PH-7.6, Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-0. I'm going to test it again today and if there's any change I'll do a pwc, if not I'll do it tomorrow and re-dose the meds. I really can't understand why this is happening. I'm praying the others will be ok, they look fine but I'm not taking anything for granted anymore.
I also haven't seen Star our loach for a few days. I've added a few artificial plants and another large decoration so it's kinda hard to see the back of the tank now. Would it be possible for him to hide for that long? I didn't even see him when I did the pwc and cleaned the gravel. He went missing before but turned up a couple of days later, this time I haven't seen him in about 4 days though!
Regards,
Barbs.
After the pwc, I re-dosed the meds, hoping she'd perk up a bit, but no joy. She had a few ich spots (that were getting better), became lethargic, hid in the plants and wouldn't eat, all in the space of a few hours. She was breathing fairly rapidly and tried her best to swim once or twice but mainly let the current take her. I turned off the lights yesterday evening so she could rest. She settled under a plant, resting against an ornament. This morning I found her stuck in the plant, she wasn't breathing
.I had a good look at her but all I could see was a few faint ich spots and it looks like her anal fin had deteriorated in the middle and all that was left were the rays. I didn't notice that last night when I checked her out and it doesn't look like fin rot or like the others had been nipping her. Other than that she looked normal.
I tested the water last night, same results again, PH-7.6, Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-0. I'm going to test it again today and if there's any change I'll do a pwc, if not I'll do it tomorrow and re-dose the meds. I really can't understand why this is happening. I'm praying the others will be ok, they look fine but I'm not taking anything for granted anymore.
I also haven't seen Star our loach for a few days. I've added a few artificial plants and another large decoration so it's kinda hard to see the back of the tank now. Would it be possible for him to hide for that long? I didn't even see him when I did the pwc and cleaned the gravel. He went missing before but turned up a couple of days later, this time I haven't seen him in about 4 days though!
Regards,
Barbs.
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
My hillstream hides all the time. I might get a glimpse every few days. Sometimes he is MIA for weeks. I would think that he died (I have him now over 2 years & that is getting close to the average lifespan of hillies), but only to have him reappear days later. <And Hillies are reputed to be immune to ich.>
I don't know what to say about your troubles. You seem to be doing a good job keeping the water under control with pcw's. That & ich meds should keep ich under control. <I've never lost any goldfish to ich, it is always easily treatable ... touch wood.>
Unless other symptoms show up in the remaining fish, I can't think of any additional treatment at this point. All I can do is keep fingers crossed.
I don't know what to say about your troubles. You seem to be doing a good job keeping the water under control with pcw's. That & ich meds should keep ich under control. <I've never lost any goldfish to ich, it is always easily treatable ... touch wood.>
Unless other symptoms show up in the remaining fish, I can't think of any additional treatment at this point. All I can do is keep fingers crossed.
Barbs
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Well the saga continues! I arrived home tonight to find one of our orandas taking it's last breath . He was a lovely little guy but over the past few days had taken to hiding in an ornament and only came out at feeding time for an hour or so.
A couple of weeks ago I noticed he had a raised scale on either side of his body, almost in the same position. Under the scale was a tiny little blood spot. I watched him closely and did pwc and it improved. There were no physical signs of disease, he was eating & pooping as normal, so I haven't a clue what he died from. I've inspected his body but have found nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing is, he never grew from the time I got him. They all started out pretty much the same size, the others have doubled but he's still small.
I've checked the water parameters, ph 7.6, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5.0. Does this seem like my tank has finished cycling? I hope so!
I still haven't seen our loach, it's weeks now. I've checked numerous times for a body but haven't found one. Perhaps he'll turn up like yours did jsoong, but tbh I'm not holding my breath!
I managed to get rid of the ich. They're all looking healthy & happy now which is why I can't understand the little orandas death. Do you think it could be genetic? Maybe he was sickly to begin with.
I hope we don't have anymore unexplained deaths, I really don't think I could cope with another one. We're down to 1 pearlscale, 3 orandas and the 6 minnows. We've had 4 deaths over the last few weeks, it's emotionally draining. I think we'll stick to the one's we have left and keeps our fingers x'd they don't suddenly drop off!!
. He was a lovely little guy but over the past few days had taken to hiding in an ornament and only came out at feeding time for an hour or so. A couple of weeks ago I noticed he had a raised scale on either side of his body, almost in the same position. Under the scale was a tiny little blood spot. I watched him closely and did pwc and it improved. There were no physical signs of disease, he was eating & pooping as normal, so I haven't a clue what he died from. I've inspected his body but have found nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing is, he never grew from the time I got him. They all started out pretty much the same size, the others have doubled but he's still small.
I've checked the water parameters, ph 7.6, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5.0. Does this seem like my tank has finished cycling? I hope so!
I still haven't seen our loach, it's weeks now. I've checked numerous times for a body but haven't found one. Perhaps he'll turn up like yours did jsoong, but tbh I'm not holding my breath!
I managed to get rid of the ich. They're all looking healthy & happy now which is why I can't understand the little orandas death. Do you think it could be genetic? Maybe he was sickly to begin with.
I hope we don't have anymore unexplained deaths, I really don't think I could cope with another one. We're down to 1 pearlscale, 3 orandas and the 6 minnows. We've had 4 deaths over the last few weeks, it's emotionally draining. I think we'll stick to the one's we have left and keeps our fingers x'd they don't suddenly drop off!!
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
A goldy that is not growing (but still eats like a pig) prob. has internal parasites or fish tb. I've had seemingly healthy fish die within weeks of me getting it, with no apparent cause. I pin those down to pre-existing disease.
Sorry to hear about another loss. I hope that the rest will be happy & healthy. I would suggest not adding any new fish for a a few months to make sure that the remaining fish are not infected. And definitely QT all new fish for at least 3-4 weeks!
Sorry to hear about another loss. I hope that the rest will be happy & healthy. I would suggest not adding any new fish for a a few months to make sure that the remaining fish are not infected. And definitely QT all new fish for at least 3-4 weeks!
Barbs
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
I definitely won't be adding anymore fish for a long time, the stress is too much!! But if we ever do, it'll definitely be qt'd, I've learned my lesson on that one!
Now I'm sure your sick & tired of this thread but I've one more problem I'd like your opinion on.
As I'm completely paranoid now and constantly watching the fish looking for signs of illness, I've discovered one of the orandas has a stunted anal fin. The other fin looks fine and seems to be in proportion to his body but the one beside it looks like an overgrown scale, it's a fraction of the size.
It doesn't seem to bother him, he swims fine, eats & poops normal but I'm concerned it'll affect him when he's bigger.
Have you any idea why it's not growing? Is it a sign of illness? I feel as if I've bought a completely dodgy batch of fish or else it's something I'm doing wrong. I'll try get a pic soon, if he stops long enough for one!
Your advice is much appreciated, as always.
Now I'm sure your sick & tired of this thread but I've one more problem I'd like your opinion on.
As I'm completely paranoid now and constantly watching the fish looking for signs of illness, I've discovered one of the orandas has a stunted anal fin. The other fin looks fine and seems to be in proportion to his body but the one beside it looks like an overgrown scale, it's a fraction of the size.
It doesn't seem to bother him, he swims fine, eats & poops normal but I'm concerned it'll affect him when he's bigger.
Have you any idea why it's not growing? Is it a sign of illness? I feel as if I've bought a completely dodgy batch of fish or else it's something I'm doing wrong. I'll try get a pic soon, if he stops long enough for one!
Your advice is much appreciated, as always.
jsoong
Aquarium Advice Addict
It is pretty common to see fin deformities in fancy golds. Most of the goldies sold in pet stores are actually "rejects" from fancy breeders. Goldfish are so inbred that genetic malformations are very common. A breeder normally cull out serious defects at a few weeks' age. The remaining fish are allowed to grow for a few more weeks. The next cull is for finnage & colour. Those with malformed fins (commonest are fused tails & missing anals & malformed dorsals in Ranchus) are sent to the pet stores. Of an original spawn, the breeeder may keep 1% & those are the high priced show fish.
That is not to say that the pet store fish are unhealthy. <Bargain hunters look in the fry tanks to see if a good quality speciment had slipped through!> Missing or malformed fins are usually not a problem. A completely missing anal fin *may* be ingrown, and sometimes cause problems as the fish grow. However, if you are seeing a stub, this is less likely. At any rate, there is nothing you can do about the fin. If the fish is happy, I'd let it be.
That is not to say that the pet store fish are unhealthy. <Bargain hunters look in the fry tanks to see if a good quality speciment had slipped through!> Missing or malformed fins are usually not a problem. A completely missing anal fin *may* be ingrown, and sometimes cause problems as the fish grow. However, if you are seeing a stub, this is less likely. At any rate, there is nothing you can do about the fin. If the fish is happy, I'd let it be.
