Hole-in-the-head disease

[FMJnaX]

Hi all,

My beloved Ryunkin (in my avatar) is not doing too well and I'm afraid he won't be with me much longer. He's been struggling for quite a while now with different things. He started in my whiskey barrel "pond" and was really struggling with ammonia levels (the pond never cycled due to my newness and over addition of chemicals). I bought the 29 gal and moved him in to it to give him some relief. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to cycle the 29 gal so he was my cycle fish. Since the tank was upstairs, he also had to battle warmer water (80-82F). I watched the ammonia closely every day. Today it finally dropped to .25 ppm (1.0 ppm yesterday) so I think the ammonia stage of the cycle is about over. While I was checking the water yesterday, I noticed that right above his left eye was an eroding hole. I started to do some massive research and all I could come up with was HITH. Tonight it's 100x worse. It's really eating his head away and has started on the right side as well. He's still very active, eating, playing, etc. I also believe he has an internal parasite. Since last night, his poop has been white and stringy.

Now, I'm not thinking he's going to make it much longer by the looks of it. I have 1/2 of a day 1 dose of Maracyn-Two. Chances are, this isn't going to help any and I cannot go out and buy any more (the wife is utterly against my fish. I'm lucky I have the 3 I have now). She's just inhumane I suppose... Also, I don't want to disrupt my cycle by adding any meds. I know it sounds wrong and horrible, but I would rather let the guy go and finish my cycle than to try and save him and waste $30+ on meds. I really love the little guy, but he's just been through so much that I'm surprised he's even still alive.

So here's my questions:
1) I read up on HITH and everything says to keep water conditions perfect. Well, I can't.... I'm going through a cycle. pH and everything else is perfect in the range, I've done water changes, I don't overfeed, both filters are working great, etc. The only thing wrong is that my temperature is at 74F. The highest recommended temp for goldies is 72F. He's been in 82F without incident until now. Is there anything I can/should do in regards to water?

2) What can be used to help HITH? As I mentioned, his poop is white and stringy so he's more than likely got an internal parasite. I know what meds to use for that, but not sure about HITH.

3) Is HITH even curable? I get 50/50 from information I've read.

4) How horrible of a person am I for not rushing to save him? (flame me all you want, but I can't help it. I'm at the control of the wife and she will not budge even an inch).

 

[Jchillin]

I recall when you posted your first thread...I think the consensus at the time was that he would be better off in the new tank as opposed to the whiskey barrel.

I have heard that HITH isn't curable.

You cannot be flamed in any fashion for what has occurred. IMO, you were between a rock and a hard place and chose the lesser of two evils.

You should be commended for all your efforts.

 

[FMJnaX]

Thanks Jchillin. I appreciate it. You're correct that I've been stuck since the get-go of this tank. I am now a huge advocate for NOT using chemicals unless absolutely neccessary. It screwed my whiskey barrel pond to no end and never fixed the problem. Only after a complete reworking has it been cured to its once glorified state (now has 2 red-cap oranda's and is cycling beautifully (in the last nitrite stages). It's been around for about 3 years and has wintered fish all 3 years, but this spring something happened with my cycle, and the first thing I did was start adding chemicals. I lost my 4 year old goldie (the Ryunkins pond-mate) to the ammonia/parasite (not sure which really did him in), and that's where the story started; getting the 29 gal. I really thought he was doing good, but I didn't even think that he could be incubating the parasite that was afflicting the other fish. I'm just sad that he's not doing too well. You get attached ya know... especially after valiant efforts to save him.

Thanks again. I'll just have to let him have the time of his life in these last stages. I'll try and get a decent pic of it and upload for reference.

 

[An t-iasg]

FMJnaX,
Awww...sorry to hear about your fishy...

Maybe you saw this link when you were reading about HITH disease: http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm There seems to be a relationship between the intestinal parasite (probable cause of white poop) and HITH. Do you have any metronidazole? (Seachem is one of the manufacturers of this med). Otherwise, finish the antibiotics and do water changes and hope for the best.

If you don't think that will work (if the HITH is advancing quickly, it probably won't) or don't want to add more meds, I understand too. Or maybe you don't want to disrupt his last moments with a water change...it's the hardest thing to watch a sick fish and wonder what to do. I did treat my betta for dropsy, for about 5 days. Dropsy is another disease that doesn't have a good cure rate. After that treatment, he was still alive, but I didn't want him to suffer in QT anymore, so I discontinued the meds and put him back in his regular tank to live his last few days. So there's nothing wrong with simply trying to make him comfortable at this point and not adding more meds. If you think a water change will make him more comfortable, do that; if you think it would merely contribute to his stress at this point, then skip it.

 

[FMJnaX]

Yes, I saw that An t-iasg. Made my heart drop to my stomach.

the HITH is advancing very quickly, going from a barely noticable spot last night to a huge, and very noticable area just this afternoon. It's also starting on the other side.

My thoughts are that he was incubating the parasite from the outside. The water temp outside was a chilly 58F. Inside, it gradually went from 60F to the 82F I keep mentioning. Perhaps the 80F held it at bay until we moved the tank downstairs, in which the water can be kept constant at 72-74F. This is the only thing I can think of. Water has been decent, though not perfect (can't, I'm cycling). I keep going on this guilt trip that I did because information I've read states that HITH is sometimes thought to be related to bad water conditions.

In any case, I feel there's nothing I can do and I don't want to prolong his suffering (yes, I believe fish can suffer). I don't want to euthanize since he's still very much active and appears to be enjoying life to the fullest (chowed down a piece of orange today in about 5 minutes). If he gets worse and appears to be suffering, then I will euthanize.

I managed to take some pics. They didn't turn out too clear (his body isn't that white/fuzzy looking), but they are good examples. His eye is still there, moving, and not fuzzy so I don't think he's blind (yet). It's just horrible looking. Hard to believe it's ballooned this much in the last 36 hours.

 

[Kari]

Have you thought to try Jungle's Anti-Parasite medicated fish food? HITH is one of the specific things it says it treats for, and it also says that it's safe to use with external water treatments. It only costs about $5...might be worth a shot :? If I thought I could get it to you in time, I'd send you mine! Good luck!

 

[Kari]

I went and looked at the packaging for the medicated food. It contains metronidazole, which is the drug that An t-iasg suggested. It has a couple other drugs in it too, but metro is the main one. I really hope you'll try it and it works. I finally found a way to view pics, so I was able to get a good look at your fishy, he's ADORABLE!

 

[Apocalypse_Gold]

If you go for the save, add melafix and for the sake of the fish and at the risk of the cycle, add some ammonia removing resin chips.

 

[Kari]

I say go for the save!

 

[FMJnaX]

Have you thought to try Jungle's Anti-Parasite medicated fish food? HITH is one of the specific things it says it treats for, and it also says that it's safe to use with external water treatments. It only costs about $5...might be worth a shot :? If I thought I could get it to you in time, I'd send you mine! Good luck!

I picked some up! I scheduled my vacation today for an extra week so that my wife could spend extra time with her parents. As a side note, I told her that as a result, she should let me try to save him. She agreed. I'll try the 4 week dose and see what happens. It's the Jungle food so it shouldn't screw my cycle up as long as I ensure to remove uneaten food, right?

On another note, while we were at the LFS, I saw some convicts that I really liked. Guess if this guy pulls through, I'll have to work on convincing her of the 55+ gallon.

 

[FMJnaX]

If you go for the save, add melafix and for the sake of the fish and at the risk of the cycle, add some ammonia removing resin chips.

No need. The Ammonia stage is over and I'm now in the nitrite stage. I've done a 1/2 dose of aquarium salt as a prevenative measure and to help with the disease. I'm going all-out for the save now.

 

[Kari]

YAY!!! Keep us posted on how he's doing!

 

[Jchillin]

Wish you all the luck in the world...kudos for going for the save!

 

[BrianNY]

I wish I looked at this thread earlier. I've never heard of a goldfish getting HITH. As far as I know it effects only large cichlids (but then I don't know everything). It is caused by an internal parasite that reproduces rapidly due to a vitamin deficiency and is made worse by poor water quality.

The stringy poop sounds more like hex than anything else. I agree with An-t-iasg and would treat with metro. I would also do water changes and keep the temp up. Goldfish can handle a very wide range of temps.

HTH

 

[FMJnaX]

Already on top of it BrianNY...

I had actually never heard of any other fish getting HITH until I started my latest research. The goldfish info site I've been using for a while states it as a disease that can affect goldies and Koi. After looking and seeing that most places say it's mainly in large cichlids (Oscars namely), I was baffled. Nevertheless, I have it.

Water temp is on the rise (again). Up from 72F to 75-76F today. I'll go to 78F tomorrow, and finally at 80-82F by Monday morning. As noted, I've got 1/2 dose of aquarium salt in. I'll finish the dose on Sunday morn. I'm probably going to do a daily water change. I've got 4 5 gal buckets with water temping up with heaters and getting ready. For meds, I got the the Jungle Labs anti0parasite food, which has metronidazole, praziquantel, and levamisole.

If he doesn't make it, then I suppose it just wasn't meant to be.

 

[Kari]

We're rootin for ya! And I don't know about the food affecting your cycle, but definately remove any food that he doesn't eat. When I first started feeding that particular food to my fish, I thought they'd eat alot more than they did (some of them were so picky, they wouldn't eat it at all, but that was the tropicals) anywho...there was some food left over, it wasn't alot, but it clouded up the water REALLY bad :?

By the way...way to go on figuring out how to get the wife to compromise with you! I can totally sympathize. J (my fiance) stated flat out today that he could care less about the fish, the only reason he gives them a thought is because they affect ME I'm steadily getting him used to the idea that he's going to have to help me put a pond together for the goldies...resistance is futile...muahahahaha

 

[greenmaji]

FMJnaX.. from reading your posts I can only say that your love for goldies is not in question. If you would have not gone for the save I dont think that anyone could have been upset with you for it.. your fish is very ill. Im glad to hear that you are going for the save though.
Hole in the head in goldfish is news to me as well.
good luck!

 

[Kari]

How's he doin, FM?

 

[FMJnaX]

Still kickin'. The good news is that I haven't seen much progression like I did before the meds. Is has gotten a bit worse, but only over the course of days instead of hours. No change in behaviour, appetite, etc. I haven't been able to see his poop lately so I can't make any determinations there. I will continue feeding this food for the 4 weeks as stated and see how he turns out.

 

[FMJnaX]

Well, it's been a week since my last update so here's the deal:

He's still alive and kicking. He lost his left eye, but the good news is that progress of the disease has halted and has actually started to look better. His poop has been normal since about Wednesday. I'm still feeding the medicated food (he actually seems to like it better than the normal stuff) and will continue for 3 more weeks. Color is good, activity is great, no clamped fins, no breathing at the surface, etc.

Ammonia is at about 0.25 (wife overfed while I was out of town Thursday and Friday). Nitrites are at 0.25-0.50 and Nitrates are at 50'ish. It looks like he's also survied my cycle along with the disease!

Thanks for the support all!