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Old 04-22-2014, 08:03 AM   #1
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How to help with fish breathing HEAVY / RAPID, please read.

A little background: Tank is fully cycled, I test water daily, normal tank ph is low (around 6.6) temp is 79-80, heavily planted, plants are for the most part thriving, low tech tank, 75g, eheim pro 3 2075 filter, lights on around 9-10 hours a day, lightly stocked (around 65%), feed fairly light, daily feeding, mixed diet

occupants:
2 pearl gourami
2 gold ram
7 oto
25 cardinals

here is background on the issue: i do a 17g water change, ph jumps from 6.4-7.4, tank volume is roughly 65g because of substrate ect. tap ph is around 8.0 this is what cause the spike (didn't realized with a small wc it would still fluctuate so badly, all fish are great prior to the wc. the female ram looks like death about an hour after wc, i come to realize the ph swing has hit her hard.

all other fish still look great and acting normal, everyone is eating, even the female. She continue to breath hard but still swimming around, loss alot of colour, showing fatigue. This all started around 8-9am est on april 19th. today (the 22nd) she is still holding on, still moving around the tank during the day and feeding, starting to get colour back, BUT the breathing being rapid and heavier is still persistent. I am wondering how long do you guys feel this can go on? will she snap out of it?

I have raised my spray bar completely out of the water to created a waterfall to help oxygenate the water. I tried adding a small pump to increase oxygen even more but she was scared, and decided the increase in fear / stress is doig more harm than good so I quickly removed the additional pump.

I still see improvement is her colour and activing level is remaining the same is anything a little better. I would like to know if I can do anything else to help her relax her breathing?

Water parameters are:
ammo = 0
nitrites = 0
nitrates = less than 5ppm
ph has been falling and now is closer to 6.8(tested this just now), i have alot of dw in the tank and i believe this is why the ph drops . plus its degassing.

so yeah, I am still very worried about my girl and she is a great fish and I really don't want to lose her. Anything at all you folks can suggest I am willing to try to help her recover fully. I have been doing tons of reading to see if it could be anything else but I can't see any other clear symptoms leading to a disease. I also read that alot of fish once at this point generally die within the first 24 hours of the start of the heavy breather, where my female ram has been fighting. she clearly is not ready to go.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:43 AM   #2
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so i just tried feeding and she barely ate anything, she has been hiding in the back of dense plants and near the bottom. i am fearing the worse so heartbreaking.

her colour is so much better though, which is confusing.
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Old 04-22-2014, 08:47 AM   #3
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Set up a water change bucket with a air stone, heater, and a nice size piece of driftwood and put the water in there two days prior to wc day. I had to do it at my old place my ph was 9.7 out if the tap and tank was 6.3. Another thing there might not be enough oxygen in the water column rams stay mostly at the bottom if the tank and in a planted tank there tends to be less oxygen. Try an air stone in the tank to the gourami should be fine my three loved the only I had in my heavily planted 90 I had.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:35 AM   #4
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I've had this problem so many times with rams, they get rapid gill movement, stop eating, all there colours become really defined then they swell up like a balloon and die, I wish you the best of luck my friend this is the reason I stopped keeping these beautiful fish.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:43 AM   #5
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there has got to be something i can try and do to help her.

this thing she is goig through is because of me, i did a wc that caused a full 1 point swing in ph, this is the reason this started. not just out of the blue.
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:48 AM   #6
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my male ram has been swimming up and down and side to side on the glass frantic all morning...

he is clearly not happy that his mate is not doing well
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Old 04-22-2014, 09:49 AM   #7
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This is what we were trying to tell you.. Rams.. Beautiful, fun little fish.. Veryyy sensitive, very unforgiving of water swings and sudden changes.. This is why a mature tank is preferred, gives them a more stable environment.. Keep her stress free and feed quality food, cross your fingers because it's out if your hands at this point.. Maybe next time you'll take experienced advice a little more seriously.. Sorry about your ram, im still trying to get one to the 6 month mark myself...
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:25 AM   #8
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the swing in ph would of happened if it was a year later or today under the same wc. has nothing to do with a mature tank. its everything to do with tap ph being 8 and tank being 6.4

i messed up and did to big of a water change at once and din't let the water sit for 24 hours. its on me not the tank.
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Old 04-22-2014, 10:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipraposo198 View Post
the swing in ph would of happened if it was a year later or today under the same wc. has nothing to do with a mature tank. its everything to do with tap ph being 8 and tank being 6.4 i messed up and did to big of a water change at once and din't let the water sit for 24 hours. its on me not the tank.
would it though??if the tank was 3-4 months old would you have made that mistake?? Perhaps mature tanks and mature aquarists go hand in hand....
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:18 AM   #10
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your constant need to prove me wrong is getting old.

I tested a small 5g wc a week ago and the ph fluctuated .2 i figured .6 would be with the 15g i knew there was a risk. its not that i didn't know.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:29 AM   #11
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your constant need to prove me wrong is getting old. I tested a small 5g wc a week ago and the ph fluctuated .2 i figured .6 would be with the 15g i knew there was a risk. its not that i didn't know.
see that's where you are wrong, I'm trying to help, you're just too proud to realize this.. The fact of the matter is you are doing everything about as backwards as possible and bragging about it every step if the way.. I've been hoping you'd come around, no one else seems all that interested in your threads??? Maybe your ATM colony thread pushed them all away??? I'm done trying to be your friend, good luck with your amazing ATM colony ram tank Phillip... Hope these hard lessons you're about to learn don't hurt too bad...
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:40 AM   #12
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i guess if its not the way of this forum than its the wrong way.

well i am honestly done here. i have no reason to continue being on this site. many other freshwater forums on the net.

bye.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:43 AM   #13
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Lets calm down a bit. These fish are sensitive, and a pH swing will strongly affect them. You didn't try to lower it again real quickly did you? I try to stay out of the fw side because it seems more stuff leads to arguments but I'd hate to see the forum get a bad rep. Both the rams are acting up now?
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:51 AM   #14
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Lets calm down a bit. These fish are sensitive, and a pH swing will strongly affect them. You didn't try to lower it again real quickly did you? I try to stay out of the fw side because it seems more stuff leads to arguments but I'd hate to see the forum get a bad rep. Both the rams are acting up now?
no i didn't its been dropping back on its own, the male is still fine, i was just saying how he seems lost without the female by his side.

she is still at the bottom not doing very much.
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Old 04-22-2014, 11:58 AM   #15
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Hmm honestly I don't know if there is much you can do other than give her time . I'm sorry I can't be of more help
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:00 PM   #16
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do you think its possible for a fish like mine under the conditions to bounce back?

how likely is it for a fish thats been resting / not moving on the bottom for a day to be okay the following days?
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:10 PM   #17
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Yes. About a year ago my tank got hit with a nasty fungus. It wiped my tank out within 3 days other than my angel and Raphael catfish. My angel was on deaths door covered in fungus laying on the bottom for 2 more days and then I finally beat the fungus. He slowly got better and is still with me now. So yes I believe they can.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:24 PM   #18
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thats reassuring

good to hear a success story now and then.

As of 10 min ago I notice she is out with the male now, swimming around very slowly. might be a good sign
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:25 PM   #19
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Very good! I love rams, I had a breeding pair for a while but they got so mean haha. They tore my angel up so they went to a friends tank. Keep me posted on how they do.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:32 PM   #20
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uploading some pics i was able to get some really close up shots. give me a bit to upload em to photobucket and you can have a look and see if you notice something i may be missing.
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