I Have Some Bad News...

[smomus]

Regular garden house? Any kind of tubing you could create a siphon really

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Did you treat your moor when you moved him to the other tank??

What do you mean by "treat"? You mean medicine? We gave up on the Maracyn -- I think dosing with that stuff contributed to killing the fish...

If you mean dechlorinating the new "tank," I used preconditioned water that we purchased from Petsmart that claimed to not require cycling -- she seems to be doing fine in the little Marina plastic goldfish kit and her water is crystal clean (the package comes with a little filter too) but only time will tell if she has been affected by the fungus or whatever it was that wiped out my 60 gallon.

We need to get her into a bigger space ASAP though, because this 2 gallon aquarium kit is only for a dire emergency -- we needed to get her out of that infected tank today immediately. Here's a strange observation: When we first scooped her out of the main tank and put her in the new holding tank (this small Marina goldfish kit thing for kids), ALL SORTS of nasty, chunky debris came floating off her body, to be sucked into the filter...this must have been the disgusting fungus or infection that was in the water of the other tank...it was like she was bathed in sewage...really disgusting...but I can't help but think getting her into this fresh water is helping.

 

[smomus]

And btw after reading about the black water, I encourage to use bleach as well

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I am very sorry you lost your other fish . I would opt for bleach (10% solution). Salt will not kill all pathogens. You will need to soak everything for atleast 15mins then rinse very well. I honestly would do a fishless cycle on this tank because water changes are difficult for you. What 'tankmates' did you add to the small tank?

Thanks jlk...

We really thought we'd be able to save her...she looked like she was getting better but she was found floating on her side this morning...We are VERY saddened and want to maybe give up altogether because we know no other goldies will be like these....

I didn't want to go with the salt method either; that seems odd to me -- I would like to opt for the bleach, but I am uncertain how to clean with this...do I just wipe the glass down with rags dipped in water/bleach solution? How do I rinse the stuff off then afterward if we can't get the tank to a water source?

What about the HOB's -- how can these be disinfected? The same way...bleach or vinegar and hot water? We will be starting over with all media...

As for the cycling, here is the thing -- I realize water changes are difficult for us, but the Stability actually WORKED in the 10 gallon, dosing for a week...the Red Cap in there is doing well and surviving, and the water looks good. We NEED to get this Black Moor into a bigger tank than she's in now (this Marina Cool 7 Goldfish Kit) so I NEED to get that 60 gallon disinfected and up and running again -- this means adding Stability to the tank to rush the cycle again. There's no way this fish is going to make it in this small plastic tank made for children to keep fish, and we CANNOT afford to go out and buy yet another separate 10 gallon with filter, decor and gravel just to house the Moor...I can't put her in the established 10 gallon because I don't know if her infection will take over or come out...if it does, that will kill the fish in the 10 GALLON...

I'm in a REAL BAD spot here, to be honest; I don't know if I am coming or going anymore -- this tank disaster has ruined our upstairs loft the tank was situated in, between the splashed diseased water and the mess of everything that's in there now (the bags of old gravel...the disgusting, stained glass tops...the filthy water and gravel that are left in the tank) and we're just about ready to give up.

As for the tankmates we bought for the Red Cap in the 10 gallon, we got two small fantails today (very small actually) just so he had some company and to test to see if he would pull the same bullying as he did in the 60 gallon -- you know what? He seemed to be okay with the two fish, but as the day went on, he began his pecking and slight chasing again, so these two are probably not long for this world....

 

[ArtesiaWells]

And btw after reading about the black water, I encourage to use bleach as well

Can you give me some more insight as to why you feel this way?

Yeah, this water was ABSOLUTELY NASTY -- I have never seen such polluted, gross and downright debris-loaded tank water in my life. All this was living under our substrate and decor; I TOTALLY get now why people call goldfish "dirty"...

It is possible that this tank was just a disaster or crash waiting to happen anyway based on this water quality...

 

[smomus]

OK Artesia
First I think cleaning your 60 is priority so that we can get your moor out of that small tank. Anyway that works to get that water out and bleach in, then rinsed out. Buckets, rags, siphon what ever it takes! Something I used when changing substrate was a dust pan. Maybe that would help? Add clean water and after doing that enough, it will dilute the black water and help you get it out

 

[ArtesiaWells]

OK Artesia
First I think cleaning your 60 is priority so that we can get your moor out of that small tank. Anyway that works to get that water out and bleach in, then rinsed out. Buckets, rags, siphon what ever it takes! Something I used when changing substrate was a dust pan. Maybe that would help? Add clean water and after doing that enough, it will dilute the black water and help you get it out

Thank you, smomus! I didn't even think of the dust pan! That would totally work!

I am going to do whatever it takes to get that water out so we can get the 60 up and running as soon as possible; perhaps flushing the tank with clean water, as you said, then syphoning, repeat, etc...

If there's anything else you can think of, please let me know...

 

[jlk]

I had to do something similar back in the beginning of Feb with one of my 55gs thanks to a disgusting leech infestation. Everything went in the trash except the tank & the filter housings. My husband & I carried the tank outside in the dead of winter & I wiped everything down with bleach, soaked the filter housings in bucket of bleach water & rinsed the heck out of everything with the garden hose. And started all over from scratch.

From what your describing, it sounds like there were more issues happening in your tank than just an infection. If your going to restart this tank, switch the substrate from gravel to pool filter sand (very inexpensive). Then you wont have issues with filth & waste accumulating& building up in the gravel. Your going to have to get another siphon-type setup so you will be able to suck out any debris that collects & do water changes regularly. There really isnt a way to avoid this with a 60g tank- if you dont, your going to encounter the same issues again in the future.

Adding 2 more fancies to the 10g was not the best idea. The oranda already has aggression issues. In this small of tank, the issues are going to compounded to the nth degree. I honestly would take them back until you are able to figure out the housing situation for everybody. I would wait on purchasing anymore fish until everything is straightened out. Obviously, you can make your own decisions on this matter but this is my suggestion for now.

 

[Jesselav1233]

I recently went thru a similar traumatic event lol and I used bleach not much though just a little bit like they said like 1-15 ratio but it cleaned everything I even soaked my gravel in it then did a crazy amount of rinsing then drying then rinsing and repeating but it worked well it killed everything I didn't use it on my filter I just used super hot water

 

[hcourts]

Is the tank near a window where sunlight could get in? If you bleach everything and get a new siphone to get all the water out then dry it with towels? Then I would bleach it again and let it set in the sun for a few days. That will take care of the bleach. I had to do this once... Kinda sucks that u can't move the tank though:/

 

[Darklight]

I agree with Jlk about the sand. It is so much easier to clean than gravel. Also sand has a greater surface area for bb to stick to. If you are not using live plants, you could use just under an inch of sand coverage. This would also help to stop the sand going stagnent. Although it only takes a bit of raking throughany way to remove any build up of gases below the sand. You may have some odour which will quickly go and will not harm the fish . I was also going to suggest using old rags or towels to soak up the water currently left? You could then just throw them out. Just a thought.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I had to do something similar back in the beginning of Feb with one of my 55gs thanks to a disgusting leech infestation.

Ughh -- how did that happen? Did you lose fish? I suppose you can understand how I feel then...

Everything went in the trash except the tank & the filter housings.

That's precisely what we have done with the 60 gallon...we're even starting over with the filter media, from scratch.

My husband & I carried the tank outside in the dead of winter & I wiped everything down with bleach, soaked the filter housings in bucket of bleach water & rinsed the heck out of everything with the garden hose. And started all over from scratch.

So, I assume you lost all fish in that crash?

For whatever reason, the 60 gallon is simply too heavy for us to pick up and carry outside or to a bathtub -- we have to find a way to make this work at the location it's in, on its stand. When you say "wiped everything down with bleach," how did you do this -- just a cloth dipped in a mixture of bleach and water?

From what your describing, it sounds like there were more issues happening in your tank than just an infection.

Because of the filthy substrate and slime that is coating every surface now?

Here is my theory about what happened, jlk, and your input in terms of analyzing that would be most appreciated -- I think our substrate, which hadn't been vaccumed maybe for two times in the two years we had the tank, got so accumulated with bacteria and raw filth that it was just waiting to attach to a living thing that had an open wound of some kind. When our aggressive Red Cap nipped and attacked the two others, this opened up the wounds, which allowed the bacteria to attach itself and ultimately kill them.

Is this remotely possible?

If your going to restart this tank, switch the substrate from gravel to pool filter sand (very inexpensive). Then you wont have issues with filth & waste accumulating& building up in the gravel.

We were thinking of the colorless "natural" rock/gravel substrate you see in the "natural" tank setups, but the amount for our tank becomes VERY expensive. I have never thought of pool filter sand -- are you sure this would be okay with goldfish and the intake pipes of the HOB filters? I've read horror stories about people's filters getting killed by sand that would be sucked into them...

Your going to have to get another siphon-type setup so you will be able to suck out any debris that collects & do water changes regularly. There really isnt a way to avoid this with a 60g tank- if you dont, your going to encounter the same issues again in the future.

We realize that and talked about this last night...

How many water changes are necessary, truly, on a goldfish tank? Can we get by with a monthly 50%? And do a gravel vac with every one?

Adding 2 more fancies to the 10g was not the best idea. The oranda already has aggression issues. In this small of tank, the issues are going to compounded to the nth degree. I honestly would take them back until you are able to figure out the housing situation for everybody. I would wait on purchasing anymore fish until everything is straightened out. Obviously, you can make your own decisions on this matter but this is my suggestion for now.

I totally understand -- we just wanted to get a couple of mates for the Red Cap because he looked miserable in there without other fish. Yes, he is seemingly going after these fish too, yet it doesn't seem to be as bad as in our 60 gallon.

We absolutely do not plan on adding any fish to any other tank at any time soon -- if we get the 60 up and running, I just want a place for our Moor to go back to because she's miserable in the two gallon setup...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I recently went thru a similar traumatic event lol and I used bleach not much though just a little bit like they said like 1-15 ratio but it cleaned everything I even soaked my gravel in it then did a crazy amount of rinsing then drying then rinsing and repeating but it worked well it killed everything I didn't use it on my filter I just used super hot water

Hi Jesse!

Thanks for sharing; what happened to your tank? Did everyone die?

I wish I knew I was not the only one who has experienced this tragedy; I can't believe we have to start over again...

Do you think the scalding hot water would kill whatever is in the filters?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Is the tank near a window where sunlight could get in? If you bleach everything and get a new siphone to get all the water out then dry it with towels? Then I would bleach it again and let it set in the sun for a few days. That will take care of the bleach. I had to do this once... Kinda sucks that u can't move the tank though:/

Yes, courts, there is a window nearby -- I suppose I could try that, plus it's really hot here where I live so that would help. The thing with the syphon is, if the water gets too low -- to about an inch, where it is now -- the syphon won't suck it all out...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I agree with Jlk about the sand. It is so much easier to clean than gravel. Also sand has a greater surface area for bb to stick to. If you are not using live plants, you could use just under an inch of sand coverage. This would also help to stop the sand going stagnent. Although it only takes a bit of raking throughany way to remove any build up of gases below the sand. You may have some odour which will quickly go and will not harm the fish . I was also going to suggest using old rags or towels to soak up the water currently left? You could then just throw them out. Just a thought.

Thank you for your tips, Darklight; we're going to get the water out any way we could at this point -- probably with a new dust pan. As for the substrate, my wife really wants to go with those "natural" brown/beige-colored stones rather than sand, but I appreciate the suggestion from you and jlk...the thing is, the amount we need for our tank gets RIDICULOUSLY expensive for the gravel...

 

[fishdude25]

To answer your water change question:
You should a 50% water change AT LEAST once a week. Twice a week is highly recommended due to how dirty goldfish are.
If you rinse the pool filter sand a lot before putting it in the tank, it won't ruin your filter. Do you have a test kit? The API master test kit is highly accurate. You could do a fish-in-cycle, so that your fish won't have to stay in the tiny tank.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

To answer your water change question:
You should a 50% water change AT LEAST once a week. Twice a week is highly recommended due to how dirty goldfish are.
If you rinse the pool filter sand a lot before putting it in the tank, it won't ruin your filter. Do you have a test kit? The API master test kit is highly accurate. You could do a fish-in-cycle, so that your fish won't have to stay in the tiny tank.

Thank you.

Wow...50% a week? Really?

I thought we'd be able to get away with a 50% monthly because of these factors:

1. The OVER FILTRATION in this tank: We're running two large HOB's, an Aqueon QuietFlow 55 (good for over 300 GPH) and an AquaClear 110 (good for 500 GPH I believe) so combined that's like over 800 GPH for a goldie tank.

2. PLUS, I run 300ml of Seachem Purigen in the filters (two 100ml packs in the AquaClear, one 100ml pack in the Aqueon), so wouldn't all this be sufficient to get the water changes to stretch a bit?

Yes, we plan to do a fish-in cycle (no choice) to get the Black Moor out of her two gallon holding "tank" and back into the cleaned up 60 gallon...but here's the thing: We did a fish-in cycle with the aggressive Red Cap Oranda we separated after he attacked the goldies in the 60 gallon once we put him in the 10 gallon, using Seachem's Stability for a week. He survived and seems to be doing well, even with two new fish we added yesterday for him. The Stability packaging claims that "aquatic life may be added at any time when using Stability so long as the product is dosed for the complete seven days," so I am comfortable trusting this product...we would like to get the Moor into the 60 gallon and begin cycling with Stability, but we HAVE to get it cleaned, and we're having some issues with that as well as budgetary walls (money for the new substrate, decor, etc.)...

 

[Borderlesscott]

Carry on using the Stability for longer if required, there is a few stories on the Seachem site of people using Seachem Stability for weeks to ensure the fish did not get stressed due to spikes, it's bacteria won,t out compete the the stuff you need in the tank. When my old 180 litre tank splt a seam I had to do an emergency change over to a new 240 - I used stability along with regular water changes until fully cycled at 5 weeks, never had I single spike with all fish in the tank including German Blue Rams and Amano Shrimp which don't do well in poor quality water. The highest level I had at any point was just under 0.5 ppm Nitrite which happened overnight close to the tank fully cycling. I tested the water every night and every morning to ensure everything was okay, that's a lot of filling test tubes - but worth every second doing it.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Carry on using the Stability for longer if required, there is a few stories on the Seachem site of people using Seachem Stability for weeks to ensure the fish did not get stressed due to spikes, it's bacteria won,t out compete the the stuff you need in the tank. When my old 180 litre tank splt a seam I had to do an emergency change over to a new 240 - I used stability along with regular water changes until fully cycled at 5 weeks, never had I single spike with all fish in the tank including German Blue Rams and Amano Shrimp which don't do well in poor quality water. The highest level I had at any point was just under 0.5 ppm Nitrite which happened overnight close to the tank fully cycling. I tested the water every night and every morning to ensure everything was okay, that's a lot of filling test tubes - but worth every second doing it.

Well, the 10 gallon seems to be somewhat established after using the Stability for the recommended week; the question now is if it will work cycling the 60 gallon if we ever get it up and running...

 

[hcourts]

I know this could be nasty but get some old towels and throw them in there and soak up the nasty water then put clean in to soak.