I Keep Losing Goldies to the Dreaded "Swim Bladder Disease"...

[ArtesiaWells]

Hi Everyone,

As you all know by now, I am keeping four fancy goldies in a 10 gallon temporarily until I can scrape together enough cash to set up another large tank (the last 60 gallon we had developed a crack in the rear glass and flooded our home, destroying pretty much everything within sight of it and setting us back tremendously financially, almost to redefining "broke"), but recently one of them -- a small "newer" addition we picked up to give the attacking Red Cap Oranda a tankmate when he was alone in the 10 gallon -- has developed the Swim Bladder problem which seems to plague nearly all the goldfish we purchased prior to the 60 gallon crashing...this issue even seems to be plaguing our beloved Black Moor who was growing and thriving and survived the bacterial infection in the 60 gallon. We desperately want to save her.

The little goldfish that developed the swim bloat slowly began to list to the sides over the passing weeks, until he finally went upside down and I think, right now at this moment looking at the tank, he died. What is causing this constant issue with the Swim Bladder Disease? I know fancies have a tendency to get this because of their bodies and deformed inner organs, but I change this tank's water every day and don't overfeed...is it possible the Aqueon flakes I'm giving them is doing this? Could it be the plethora of bubbles from the bubble bars I equip all my tanks with...could the fish be gulping air at the surface and then getting it into their bodies?

I read on another site that the fish should be fasted for about three days to let any gas pockets escape if they do have the Swim Bladder problem, and then get them onto a diet of fresh peas, etc., but it's too late for this one small goldie that got this problem -- I am praying we can save the Moor. Is this advice of fasting them for three days solid?

Any assistance would be appreciated, friends, as always.

 

[NekoOo]

When one of my Goldies developed this issue, feeding him peas every few days took care of the problem within a week or less. I'd try that after 24 hours of fasting, and continue to give them vegetables as part of their regular diet. After supplementing their diet with peas every few days I never saw him floating again so Im a believer that it works! Good luck! I miss my Goldies, they're such personable fish.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

When one of my Goldies developed this issue, feeding him peas every few days took care of the problem within a week or less. I'd try that after 24 hours of fasting, and continue to give them vegetables as part of their regular diet. After supplementing their diet with peas every few days I never saw him floating again so Im a believer that it works! Good luck! I miss my Goldies, they're such personable fish.

Hey Neko,

Thanks for the reply; indeed, in the past, we fed our goldies that developed this issue the cooked, deshelled peas, but it didn't save them...it seemed to only have bought some time for them. I was reading on another site that the peas actually correct constipation issues, not the Swim Bladder problem, which is why I figured we lost the other fish. At any rate, I have begun the fasting process, and am happy to report that the fish I thought was gone from this is still hanging on...he's not long for this world, as he's constantly upside down and flyin' around the tank completely disoriented, but his gills are still moving...

That said, you mentioned fasting for 24 hours -- do you not recommend fasting for the 3 days as I read should be done?

 

[NekoOo]

I personally have never fasted my fish for so long. I had to leave my tank unattended for about a week with no one to feed them, and they all seemed okay, but other than that I've only ever done it for 24 hours. Maybe someone else will know if three days is good or not.

I think whether or not the peas work have to do with the main cause of the floating issue. I noticed my goldfish would only float after I fed him, and by the next morning he was fine again. So I started to soak the flakes first and add peas into their diet and everything went away. I guess it just depends on what actually causes the bloat whether it's air trapped in his system or something worse. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help but it's only a matter of time before jlk sees this and she is the goldfish queen and can help you for sure! Russel C is also very knowledgable about Goldies.

 

[jlk]

Artesia, Artesia.... You not going to like what I have to say very much. Myself as well as others suggested that you pick up a 40g storage bin ($10 at Walmart) or something similar to house these guys until your house has been restored to order and you could figure out a future tank setup for them. The uncycled 10g with four goldfish is a death sentence as you were warned. I am sorry.

Their symptoms are not a true swim bladder issue but the result of chronic toxin exposure. Even sustained levels of ammonia & nitrite as low as 0.06 can cause permanent cellular damage to the organs, brain, reproductive system, respiratory system, digestive system, etcetcetc. Most notable, it negatively affects a fancies capacity to sustain & maintain normal buoyancy. Unless you have been changing 100% of their water multiple times a day, this is unavoidable. Poor diet has not helped matters much but is really irrelevant in this situation.

Are buoyancy issues preventable? Those directly related to poor conformation are not preventable nor treatable. However, the most common issues affecting buoyancy are completely manageable. Water is number one- lots of healthy water, do not overstock, frequent water changes and making sure your fancies are not exposed to ANY amount of ammonia or nitrite & nitrates are kept as low as possible (preferably under 10ppm). Diet is number two- daily plain cooked veggies, either a high quality sinking pellet or a gel food diet. Gel food can be homemade or purchased. Occasional fresh proteins & fruits. A few small meals spread out over day instead of 1 or 2 big meals.

What can you do for your moor now? If she's eating, small meals of brine shrimp & lots of veggies along with LOTS of healthy water. TONS. You can try adding 2tsps of Epsom salts (predissolved) to the tank in the event theres a constipation/excess gas in the digestive tract issue or do this as a 15min bath (1tsp/g). Beyond this, hope she is a strong fish & can recover on her own. If she does, her diet & care needs to be permanently changed because she will be prone to future issues. I am truly sorry and I hope she can pull through.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

So, apparently, the daily 50% water changes weren't enough?...

The thing is, I have seen these issues in the larger tank we had before it cracked and flooded (the 60 gallon) as we lost a few goldies to this "upside down" phenomena, thus taking the "too small for goldfish" factor out of the equation...

Some questions:

- Should I continue fasting, at least for 24 hours? I don't want to get into the "fancy" diets suggested if we're going to get them off of flakes, but we can do the cooked frozen peas...should I wait three days before feeding them again...or less?

- Do I need to do more than one 50% change a day on this tank? Does it need to absolutely be bi-daily?

- How do we account for the fancies I have lost in the past in the 60 gallon based on the theory that the 10 gallon is too small for these four and is what is causing the symptoms?

- It's not remotely possible the over-abundance of bubbles from the bar(s) is causing an over-saturation of oxygen in the water...thus air getting into their bodies from surface gulping?

 

[jlk]

I'm on my cell so I will have to address most of your concerns tomorrow when I'm back on my computer. But, I do recall your prior tank had a constant level ammonia combined with insufficient water changes, heavy waste/debris in substrate and their diet needed a major overhaul. Recipe for disaster with fancies that are prone to health issues.

The gasping your fish are doing at the surface is because they are being poisoned by their water- plain and simple. Ammonia damages their respiratory tissues so they can not assimilate oxygen. Nitrite then prevents red blood cells from assimilating oxygen. Your fish are being suffocated externally & internally & are gasping oxygen at the surface in desperation to try & stay alive. Go to Walmart or the salvation army & spend $10 on something much larger to temporarily house them. A kids plastic swimming pool, storage bin, a cooler, a 50g trash can, something if you want to try & save these guys.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I'm not saying they gasp all the time -- merely when eating, or when I turn the light over the tank on or even approach the glass, they will get hyper-excited and begin gasping at the surface in anticipation of the flakes...

 

[jlk]

Toss the flakes- I have suggested this before. Flakes are the worst thing for fancies that are prone to buoyancy issues. Fasting isn't necessary either here- offer them only a variety of plain cooked veggies(on bottom of tank) & some occasional fruits for the next 3-4 days. Then add a small amount of fresh proteins & see how they do.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Toss the flakes- I have suggested this before. Flakes are the worst thing for fancies that are prone to buoyancy issues. Fasting isn't necessary either here- offer them only a variety of plain cooked veggies(on bottom of tank) & some occasional fruits for the next 3-4 days. Then add a small amount of fresh proteins & see how they do.

What kinds of veggies and fruits? Zucchini? We tried zucchini in the past in the 60 gallon, attached to a feeding clipper thingy, and they didn't care for it, barely nibbling at the chunks...

 

[absolutangel04]

I agree with the advice jlk has given you. I do not know as much as she does about goldies, but I do know some things about swim bladders and I think she has explained things very well. It will be tough with critters that are prone to swim bladder issues, but it can certainly be combated.

 

[jlk]

Ok, to save rewriting details, please read the link below. There's a section devoted to dietary concerns with fruit & veggie lists. The guide is not complete (still working on revisions & additions) but it covers the basics & i hope to get something posted here in near future Please ask if you have any questions!

http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html

 

[ArtesiaWells]

UPDATE:

The small goldie we thought was pretty much dead has miraculously flipped right side up and is swimming in an oriented, cohesive fashion -- the other fish seem to be doing a bit better too in terms of their bloating symptoms they were beginning to develop...

We are on the second day of fasting, except for cooked frozen deshelled peas my wife fed them yesterday morning -- they seemed to have gotten "better" since getting off the the flakes even for this 48 or so hours, but at this point I don't know where to go with the feeding...

 

[jlk]

Your options are making your own gelfood or purchasing it. They still need daily veggies no matter what- this isnt an 'option' or only for when they are sick. Exchanging some meals for fresh protiens is a good idea as well.

Gel Food Recipes

Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL :: By Product Type :: Fish Gel Food Premixes - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center

 

[Dwohlge1]

I have had a lot of experience with swim bladder issues in fancies.


JLK is right, first you need to eliminate the offending food. Flakes are terrible for fancies get a high quality sinking pellet(NLS or Omega One). Also fresh veggies are key.

Peas and Epsom salt only deal with constipation, which can cause buoyancy issues. Often this is not the root of the problem.

I had buoyancy issues in my large Oranda for 8 months till I solved them. I also had issues with a smaller Oranda for 4 months. In my case I was overfeeding my goldfish. I tried, peas, Epsom salt, gel food, fasting, feeding veggies, and nothing worked.

In the end I found that I was over feeding him NLS. A high quality pellet like NLS is able to provide goldfish with all the nutrition they require in a small dose. Over feeding causes fat build up which can impair a Goldfishes ability to control their swimbladder.

I started with a 4 day fast then fed the 1/4 of their normal daily serving. By removing one of 2 NLS feedings and replacing the second with blanched spinach I was able to correct their buoyancy issues. It is near impossible to kill a goldfish by underdressing them, while over feeding can cause a large amount of issues.

http://www.raingarden.us/feeding.pdf