I May Soon Lose Another One...Can Anyone Tell Me Why This Keeps Happening?

[ArtesiaWells]

My wife noticed that GoldieHawn, our orange common fantail, has begun developing what appears to be a miniscule "cottony white" growth spot on her rear and that her body has begun getting a bit swollen -- which has happened to some other fancies we have kept before they ultimately grew these large ulcer-like bulges under their scales and ultimately passed away. I don't understand why this keeps happening in my tank -- I'm religious with water changes, the tank is cycled, my readings haven't been off, I have adequate filtration...

Is this something in their diet that keeps giving them these ulcer like formations? Is it the exhausted carbon coming out of the Aqueon HOB filter cartridges or leaking something back into the water column? Is it the fact that I don't gravel vacuum religiously enough? Is it our tap water (even though it's being treated with Prime during each water change)?

If anyone could lend any insight here I'd appreciate it; I was heartbroken when my wife told me this morning that she noticed GoldieHawn's small cottony growth beginning...

 

[Berylla]

How large is your tank and how is it stocked? How often to you change the water and how much? What are the water parameters? Thanks. Photos if you can.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

How large is your tank and how is it stocked? How often to you change the water and how much? What are the water parameters? Thanks. Photos if you can.

Hello, Berylla; thank you for the response...

Per my signature, my tank is 60 gallons with three smallish fancy goldfish. I change 50% of the water per week, with a mid-week 15 gallon exchange just for added health (though since we noticed this small cottony growth on the common fantail, I have stepped up water changes to 50% every other day -- just to keep the "wound" "clean"). Water parameters, according to the liquid API kit, have been spot-on. Tank is established and cycled for a good few months now.

 

[Berylla]

Hello, Berylla; thank you for the response...

Per my signature, my tank is 60 gallons with three smallish fancy goldfish. I change 50% of the water per week, with a mid-week 15 gallon exchange just for added health (though since we noticed this small cottony growth on the common fantail, I have stepped up water changes to 50% every other day -- just to keep the "wound" "clean"). Water parameters, according to the liquid API kit, have been spot-on. Tank is established and cycled for a good few months now.

You are doing a great job with your tank maintenance. It sounds like your fish are suffering from either a bacterial or fungal infection.

Although you are keeping your tank clean, are you vacuuming well every week? Goldfish can be pretty messy. When you clean out your filter, wipe down the sides of the filter walls as well.

What brand of food are you feeding your fish and how much a day? Also, overfeeding can cause the water to have elevated levels of organics.

If your levels are 0 ammonia, under 20 nitrate and 0 nitrite, then the next step is to ID the disease.

If the growths are cotton and puffy, it's probably fungal. If it's cotton and more dense, it's bacterial.

Could you post a photo of your affected fish? Thanks.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

You are doing a great job with your tank maintenance. It sounds like your fish are suffering from either a bacterial or fungal infection.

It's actually just one fish that is exhibiting the symptom (actually, it has become more miniscule and difficult to see, indicating to me it MAY be going away)...

Although you are keeping your tank clean, are you vacuuming well every week? Goldfish can be pretty messy. When you clean out your filter, wipe down the sides of the filter walls as well.

I'm actually not keeping up that well with vacuuming and I know this can be a factor -- just last night, my wife asked me about the vacuuming and she took the gravel vac while I was doing a water change and started really getting a bunch of food and stuff up from only one front portion of the gravel...so I know that needs some work...it's just SO hard to get to the bottom of this VERY tall tank (I'm kicking myself for buying this thing) and we need to stand on a chair to reach down in there...

At any rate, let me ask you about physically cleaning the filters and such -- aside from either replacing the cartridge media from time to time and dunking the AquaClear media in removed tank water also from time to time, just how well do the filters need to be cleaned out? That thick syrupy gunk that collects on the walls of the filter boxes should definitely be wiped out regularly? Can any of this harm the fish?

What brand of food are you feeding your fish and how much a day? Also, overfeeding can cause the water to have elevated levels of organics.

Well, I have a 100ml packet of Seachem Purigen in the AquaClear filter to take care of some of the dissolved organics -- but to answer your feeding question, I think I'm overfeeding a bit and as for brand, I feed either Omega One Goldfish Flakes or New Life Spectrum Goldfish Pellets (small formula), mixing it up from meal to meal...I feed normally twice a day, sometimes once a day. When one of my fish exhibits his swim bloat issue, which he has had since we got him, I feed deshelled frozen (but thawed and heated) peas which always helps.

If your levels are 0 ammonia, under 20 nitrate and 0 nitrite, then the next step is to ID the disease.

If the growths are cotton and puffy, it's probably fungal. If it's cotton and more dense, it's bacterial.

Could you post a photo of your affected fish? Thanks.

I am unsure if the area is cotton-y and "puffy" or "dense"; as I said, the spot appears to have gotten smaller as far as we can tell -- I will try and get a picture, but it's hard to snap one...

 

[Berylla]

It's actually just one fish that is exhibiting the symptom (actually, it has become more miniscule and difficult to see, indicating to me it MAY be going away)...



I'm actually not keeping up that well with vacuuming and I know this can be a factor -- just last night, my wife asked me about the vacuuming and she took the gravel vac while I was doing a water change and started really getting a bunch of food and stuff up from only one front portion of the gravel...so I know that needs some work...it's just SO hard to get to the bottom of this VERY tall tank (I'm kicking myself for buying this thing) and we need to stand on a chair to reach down in there...

At any rate, let me ask you about physically cleaning the filters and such -- aside from either replacing the cartridge media from time to time and dunking the AquaClear media in removed tank water also from time to time, just how well do the filters need to be cleaned out? That thick syrupy gunk that collects on the walls of the filter boxes should definitely be wiped out regularly? Can any of this harm the fish?



Well, I have a 100ml packet of Seachem Purigen in the AquaClear filter to take care of some of the dissolved organics -- but to answer your feeding question, I think I'm overfeeding a bit and as for brand, I feed either Omega One Goldfish Flakes or New Life Spectrum Goldfish Pellets (small formula), mixing it up from meal to meal...I feed normally twice a day, sometimes once a day. When one of my fish exhibits his swim bloat issue, which he has had since we got him, I feed deshelled frozen (but thawed and heated) peas which always helps.



I am unsure if the area is cotton-y and "puffy" or "dense"; as I said, the spot appears to have gotten smaller as far as we can tell -- I will try and get a picture, but it's hard to snap one...

Yes, you need to wipe down the walls of your filter at least once every 2 weeks. If you have an aquaclear, buy a prefilter sponge and you need to give that a good rinse and squeeze in tapwater every day or every other day. You will know how much.

I love Aquaclears!!! You don't ever need to change out the media - the sponge or the ceramic rocks. Just give them a good squeeze and rinse in a bucket of tank water. NEVER THROW OUT AND REPLACE.

Purigen doesn't work well, in my opinion, in a filter. It needs to be in a reactor. You can continue to use, but it probably won't help much.

Best thing is to vacuum the tank once a week - yes, i know this is a pain, or get rid of your substrate altogether and have a bare bottom tank. It's pretty easy to vacuum what you can see.

OR, feed once a day max. Goldfish are great eaters, so fishkeepers tend to overfeed. I feed my full grown discus 2x a day lightly - a small pinch. It keeps up the water quality.

If the cotton is going away, that's good. Keep us updated with these changes to maintenance and feeding.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Yes, you need to wipe down the walls of your filter at least once every 2 weeks.

Why is this? What is so harmful in that gelatenaous/sticky material that clings to the sides? I thought this was just harmless pouches of biofilm that build up...

If you have an aquaclear, buy a prefilter sponge and you need to give that a good rinse and squeeze in tapwater every day or every other day. You will know how much.

I have the AquaClear 110 -- but don't have a prefilter for the intake. I was thinking of getting one to stop the bubbles from my dual 18" bars at the back of the tank from getting sucked into it...do you think that would work?

I love Aquaclears!!! You don't ever need to change out the media - the sponge or the ceramic rocks. Just give them a good squeeze and rinse in a bucket of tank water. NEVER THROW OUT AND REPLACE.

Indeed; that's what I do. The ONLY media I replace in my 110 is the Purigen packet when it's exhausted...

Purigen doesn't work well, in my opinion, in a filter. It needs to be in a reactor. You can continue to use, but it probably won't help much.

I have found it polishes the water to ridiculously clear levels and sucks plenty of organics out of the column because the packs are ALWAYS very filthy when I replace them...

Best thing is to vacuum the tank once a week - yes, i know this is a pain, or get rid of your substrate altogether and have a bare bottom tank. It's pretty easy to vacuum what you can see.

We considered a bare bottom goldfish tank but decided against it.

OR, feed once a day max. Goldfish are great eaters, so fishkeepers tend to overfeed. I feed my full grown discus 2x a day lightly - a small pinch. It keeps up the water quality.

Okay -- so ONCE a day would be fine for my three goldies? Indeed, they ARE great eaters...

If the cotton is going away, that's good. Keep us updated with these changes to maintenance and feeding.

Will do.

 

[Cactuspixie]

You ARE recharging your purigen, and not throwing it out aren't you?
I always do water changes via gravel vac. It doesn't make sense to change 'dirty' water alone, when all the muck that's making it dirty is in the gravel.

 

[Berylla]

That sticky brown stuff that coats the inside walls of filters and the plastic holder that holds the Aquaclear sponge and media is not good for fish. It holds lots of organics that bacteria grow on. Think petri dish.

Many discus keepers wipe down the filter walls and the tank walls once a week to keep pathogens at bay. I don't suggest you do this, but since you are experiencing surface infections, keeping your tank as clean as possible without disturbing the nitrifying bacteria in your filter, is a good thing.

With increased and more thorough tank maintenance, your fish should recover.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

You ARE recharging your purigen, and not throwing it out aren't you?

No; I do throw it out and get fresh packets when they're exhausted rather than recharging it -- the recharging process was absolutely exhausting and confusing to me, I'm sorry to report, so I just get new packs when necessary. So far, remarkably, for this new tank, I have only been running one 100ml pack in the AquaClear filter...

I always do water changes via gravel vac. It doesn't make sense to change 'dirty' water alone, when all the muck that's making it dirty is in the gravel.

I understand, but wouldn't just changing the water "dilute" some of those toxins down there? I mean, is just changing the water actually HARMING the system?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

That sticky brown stuff that coats the inside walls of filters and the plastic holder that holds the Aquaclear sponge and media is not good for fish. It holds lots of organics that bacteria grow on. Think petri dish.

My G-d...and here I was thinking and lead to believe that there's nothing really in there that was dangerous -- and that all I had to do was keep the media clean/recharged, whatever...

Many discus keepers wipe down the filter walls and the tank walls once a week to keep pathogens at bay. I don't suggest you do this, but since you are experiencing surface infections, keeping your tank as clean as possible without disturbing the nitrifying bacteria in your filter, is a good thing.

Why wouldn't you suggest doing it once a week?

With increased and more thorough tank maintenance, your fish should recover.

Thanks for the upbeat sentiment; indeed, this morning, I did another 50% change and got some gunk up from the gravel as well as inside the Aqueon and AquaClear filters...

 

[Berylla]

No; I do throw it out and get fresh packets when they're exhausted rather than recharging it -- the recharging process was absolutely exhausting and confusing to me, I'm sorry to report, so I just get new packs when necessary. So far, remarkably, for this new tank, I have only been running one 100ml pack in the AquaClear filter...



I understand, but wouldn't just changing the water "dilute" some of those toxins down there? I mean, is just changing the water actually HARMING the system?

Changing the water does dilute the water, but dilution does not clean your tank waste and uneaten food; only a thorough vacuum will achieve this. Think of it this way, you have a very smelly and dirty bathroom, and instead of cleaning the toilets and floor, you open the windows. All the smell goes away or is reduced greatly, Once the windows are closed, the smell comes back with a vengeance.

Or, how about a moldy piece of meat in a bucket of water. Dumping out the water and refilling it takes away the toxins for an hour or two. By the next day, the water is bad again.

Vacuuming does not harm the nitrifying bacteria at all; it actually helps the bacteria. Some sumps have kaldness media which is agitated and flushed with new water as part of the system. This constant cleaning of the media actually increases the nitrification process. Check it out:

60 Gallon Acrylic Tank Setup K1 Kaldness - YouTube

 

[Berylla]

My G-d...and here I was thinking and lead to believe that there's nothing really in there that was dangerous -- and that all I had to do was keep the media clean/recharged, whatever...



Why wouldn't you suggest doing it once a week?



Thanks for the upbeat sentiment; indeed, this morning, I did another 50% change and got some gunk up from the gravel as well as inside the Aqueon and AquaClear filters...

I wouldn't suggest once a week because it's really for fussy fish like discus which need absolutely pristine water to thrive. Also, discus keepers overfeed their fish and they need to change their water out often. I have discus and I change my water 75% every other day. :|

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Changing the water does dilute the water, but dilution does not clean your tank waste and uneaten food; only a thorough vacuum will achieve this. Think of it this way, you have a very smelly and dirty bathroom, and instead of cleaning the toilets and floor, you open the windows. All the smell goes away or is reduced greatly, Once the windows are closed, the smell comes back with a vengeance.

Or, how about a moldy piece of meat in a bucket of water. Dumping out the water and refilling it takes away the toxins for an hour or two. By the next day, the water is bad again.

I understand.

Vacuuming does not harm the nitrifying bacteria at all; it actually helps the bacteria. Some sumps have kaldness media which is agitated and flushed with new water as part of the system. This constant cleaning of the media actually increases the nitrification process. Check it out:

60 Gallon Acrylic Tank Setup K1 Kaldness - YouTube

Thanks.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I wouldn't suggest once a week because it's really for fussy fish like discus which need absolutely pristine water to thrive. Also, discus keepers overfeed their fish and they need to change their water out often. I have discus and I change my water 75% every other day. :|

Well, I gotta say, along with Discus, Goldfish are some pretty messy critters as well...

 

[Berylla]

My little stinkers:


Oops, that link didn't work. Give me a sec.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/103447264392389210826/posts/2UJnLNmBPVi

Here we go.

 

[Rodeo one]

Sooo.... I read somewhere, think it was on this forum but not sure, that Goldfish, specifically Ryukins, don t really have stomachs so need to be fed several times a day. ??

 

[Berylla]

Sooo.... I read somewhere, think it was on this forum but not sure, that Goldfish, specifically Ryukins, don t really have stomachs so need to be fed several times a day. ??

You could be right. I don't own any goldfish. Experts?

 

[Amlyel]

I'm no expert but I do know its supposed to be several small meals for goldfish with a quality food and veggies everyday.

 

[Berylla]

I'm no expert but I do know its supposed to be several small meals for goldfish with a quality food and veggies everyday.

I remember that if I ever have goldfish. So, less feeding cannot be done in this tank.

Could any goldfish experts chime in here regarding tank maintenance? Thanks.