Ich, Heat, Salt & Plants

[Anton]

My fish are just starting to show symptoms of Ich. The Congo Tetras are developing white spots, while the Cherry Barbs are flashing.

I've been browsing this forum the past couple days and have learned a lot about treating Ich. I decided to try the heat method combined with salt. I've been increasing the temp slowly and have been adding salt solution gradually. Salt concentration is currently at 0.5 tsp/Gal and target is 1 tsp/Gal.

Here's the problem: I've got two (different) heaters max'ed out in my tank, and my temp only reads 82.4degF. The heater thermostats don't seem to let the heaters go any higher.

Any ideas on how to get the temp up past 86deg? Think 82deg will be okay when combined with salt treatment? At what concentration, keeping in mind my plants?

Thanks for any advice!

-Anton
~~~~~~~~~
44Gal Planted FW w/
4 Lemon Tetra
3 Congo Tetra
2 Cherry Barb
1 Zebra Danio
Cryptocoryne affinis
Echinodorus amazonicus
Hygrophila difformis
Microsorum pteropus

 

[grimlock3000]

You need to buy a better heater. Holding the temp at 82F makes the ich only spread faster. Some people have reported that you need more than 1tsp/gallon as well, so having the temp in the right range is very important. If you go with not enough salt, and not enough heat, the Ich will spread very quickly.

Check out this article:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php

 

[jsoong]

I've had success using 0.3% salt treating ich. This works out to about 12 g/gal. I actually weight the salt needed, since a tablespoon of coarse salt will be less than a tablespoon of fine salt. For my salt I ended up using 4 tablespoon per 10 gal.

At 0.3% salt, your plants will sulk, but prob won't die. That seemed to be the general opinion on the net, but you might want to research your specific plants. For the record, my hornwort lost 3/4 of the leaves but bounced back after a few weeks.

There had been reports of ich surviving 0.3% salt - possible causes: if you have low level of salt to start with, then you'll need to up the salt so there is actually an increase in salt concentration (of 0.3% I presumed) from the start. There were also some reports of ich reproducing entirely on the fish - in that case it is actually not treatable.

I did not raise my salt level past 0.3%, however, because most sites quote this as the limit for plant survival.

One other thought on the temp. Are you measuring temp with a stick on thermometer? The temp can be quite a bit lower outside the tank, plus those stick on types aren't too accurate. You might consider measuring the water temp using a "real" thermometer.

 

[Anton]

Thanks for the comments to date. I'm just heading out to check on better heaters.

As for thermometers, I've been using an in-tank sits on the bottom weighted glass thermometer. To make sure that it was accurate, I'm now using an indoor/outdoor digital thermometer with the outdoor probe in the tank. It's gone up to 83.2deg now.

For interests sake, I've had this tank running for 4 years (usually with more fish) with a concentration of 1tsp salt per 5 gallons. Not one single case of ick until now. I stopped adding salt during my water changes about 2 months ago. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[grimlock3000]

Ich only occurs because it is existing on a fish in the tank, or added to the tank with new plants or new fish. Sure the salt will help kill it off, but something in the tank has to have Ich for the whole process to start.

 

[Allivymar]

*nods and agrees with all previously written*

If one uses high temps to treat, it MUST be over 86F. Most folks who have had success with this method used temps of 88F - 90F. Salt is also an effective treatment, but needs to be 2-3 ppt HIGHER then what the tank is normally kept at.

I doubt the addition of salt caused the outbreak unless it stressed the fish. Fish can fight off ich for the most part, but stress causes a depressed immune system, and that opens the door.

I've written an article about ich and treatments; you can find it on this site here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32

 

[jsoong]

Anton, one more thought.

If you have a QT tank, you can move all your fish there for treatment. That way you can raise the salt & not worry about the plants.

As for the main tank, without fish, the ich will die off naturally (in about 2 weeks) at 80F.

Just one more option.

 

[Anton]

Thanks, this is all great info.

I've got a better heater now which seems to be doing its job. Now there are two 200W heaters in the 44gal tank so tank temp should remain steady once it reaches 88 or so.

I've never had much luck using a QT though. Only spare tank I have is a small hex...maybe 3 gal? I always had rising nitrite and ammonia levels and couldn't keep up with water changes. How do people get around tank cycling issues with temporary QT's I suspect a small investment in a larger QT would help reduce the rate at which toxins are produced...3 gal is a bit of a joke in my opinion.

Anyway, at the rate I'm going I'll be up to temp tomorrow morning and salinity (~2.7 ppt) possibly by the evening.

If the plants protest the high salinity, perhaps I'll throw them into a QT for a couple weeks.

 

[Allivymar]

Yeah, small tanks are a PITA when it comes to water parameters.

When I use a 8g QT tank for sick fish, I don't cycle it at all; meds usually kill off the good bacteria anyway, so why bother. Lots of water changes (making sure the med levels remain good).

If I use it for new fish tho, I add some filter media from an established tank. Instantly cycled tank then *grin*