Hi all I have discovered ich in my tank and am treating with wunder tonic it's blue and said it's for most diseases common in fish tanks including ich but I was just reading up on treatments online and read that you should use it at half treatments for scaleless fish and tetras, I have rummy nose tetras and neon tetras as well as a glass catfish. I have been treating for 2 days now at full strength but have I just given my fish (mentioned) a death sentence?
Ich, help!
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Angellove78
Aquarium Advice Addict
It depends on how your fish are acting. Some can handle it better than what they say. Plecos have hard skin. But, another thing is that, if the treatment is blue it will most likely dye the silicone of the tank blue. Only down fall is that it will not come out of the silicone. To help kill it faster I'd vacuum the bottom everyday or every other day. Helps from the free swimmer's reattaching again. I'd Just keep an eye on your fish, if they start looking worse I'd stop using it.
Angellove78
Aquarium Advice Addict
Well! Another word of advice, don't always go by the book. Sometimes we gotta do things without book. No matter if you read it or not. ? heat for ich and lots of water changes and vacuuming the bottom of the tank will sometimes work faster than meds. It's just like a child having a cold. I use aquarium salt and heat. Along with water changes after I vacuum the bottom. And I also have Otto's catfish and sailfin pleco. Salt don't bother them too much. But I also put a zucchini in the tank for them too. It helps them not eat off the bottom of the tank as much. Anyways, another thing I do is soak my fish pellet in garlic juice. Builds immune system. This all might help ya if that treatment don't work soon. Good luck to you and your little buddy's!
I'm not usually one to follow all the rules but no one had faith in me that they would live longer than a week so I was very strict from the get go on cycling the tank and all the rest, kind of feels like it hasn't really made a huge difference as I'm having all these issues pretty much from get go ���� but all for smooth sailing from here on out, I hope!! I love the garlic tip, I have heat up and tried combined with salt but it looked like it almost got worse over night so I chickened out and got some "medicine", I definitely prefer natural solutions to chemicals I'm just being over cautious with my new investment! if I ever have to combat ich again I will stick it out with the natural remedies, sounds like a lot less hassle and safer for the fishies, fingers crossed I don't have to tho! And again thank you heaps for your tips and tricks I will be trying these for sure, makes me feel a lot more confident with what I'm doing!!
The ich will get worse before it gets better so don't stop treating unless you see your fish reacting badly to the meds, the blue is most likely Methylene blue or malachite green, plus it probably has formalin in it , plecos well be fine if your fish aren't at the surface gasping for air they are doing okay, if they are and you have an airstone and air pump crank it up all the way, if it's a Sponge filter its already doing pretty much what an air stone does.
you have to follow the book on meds as I was advised to use rid ich + with my clown loaches and one dose was toxic enough to kill them, the key thing is to make sure they keep eating so they can stay strong so they can fight it while the meds work, soaking the food in garlic oil/juice will help them with eating and garlic has its own properties with parasites as well as boosting the fishes immune system, I have a bottle of garlic guard I use for my picky eaters they love it as it's like candy to them, after you see no more spots dose the tank for 3 additional days, gravel vac thoroughly every other day and your fish will be fine.
Just be aware it being a semi new tank the meds can kill your beneficial bacteria (could being the key word, bute always) so pay close attention to that and it should be smooth sailing.
When you do your pwc's (partial water changes 25-30%) make sure you temperature of the new conditioned water as close as possible temp wise to the tank as you can as I've read that's one of the biggest contributors to an ich outbreak.
you have to follow the book on meds as I was advised to use rid ich + with my clown loaches and one dose was toxic enough to kill them, the key thing is to make sure they keep eating so they can stay strong so they can fight it while the meds work, soaking the food in garlic oil/juice will help them with eating and garlic has its own properties with parasites as well as boosting the fishes immune system, I have a bottle of garlic guard I use for my picky eaters they love it as it's like candy to them, after you see no more spots dose the tank for 3 additional days, gravel vac thoroughly every other day and your fish will be fine.
Just be aware it being a semi new tank the meds can kill your beneficial bacteria (could being the key word, bute always) so pay close attention to that and it should be smooth sailing.
When you do your pwc's (partial water changes 25-30%) make sure you temperature of the new conditioned water as close as possible temp wise to the tank as you can as I've read that's one of the biggest contributors to an ich outbreak.
coralbandit
Aquarium Advice Addict
Wunder Tonic is Methylene Blue ,acriflavine , and quinine.
The Best ich meds are as Rick mentioned M.green and formalin.Those are the two best meds for ich when combined . I would just keep up with how you are doing it and follow the directions.
I just got ich along with my 6 new hatchet fish and also on day 2 of Rid Ich plus treatments.
Here is a link on the life cycle of ich.You need to understand your enemy and kill it. Don't let it fool you.
I considered ich fish disease 101 but with 30+ years experience I am not as confident in my treatment as I should be but IMO I would rather loose fish trying to cure then taking a too soft approach. Ich will kill your fish [and mine ] if it is not killed, kill it.
This is the best link on ICH out there IMO;
https://web.archive.org/web/20160313202109/http://skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
The Best ich meds are as Rick mentioned M.green and formalin.Those are the two best meds for ich when combined . I would just keep up with how you are doing it and follow the directions.
I just got ich along with my 6 new hatchet fish and also on day 2 of Rid Ich plus treatments.
Here is a link on the life cycle of ich.You need to understand your enemy and kill it. Don't let it fool you.
I considered ich fish disease 101 but with 30+ years experience I am not as confident in my treatment as I should be but IMO I would rather loose fish trying to cure then taking a too soft approach. Ich will kill your fish [and mine ] if it is not killed, kill it.
This is the best link on ICH out there IMO;
https://web.archive.org/web/20160313202109/http://skepticalaquarist.com/ichthyophthirius
Doesn't it always seem that we get ich when they are new arrivals, I wonder if it's the transport process, like maybe stressing them out + the whole temperature fluctuations they encounter throughout the process.. Hmm I'll have to do some research and see if they are interlinked, and rid ich + is amazing, not only for ich it treats secondary infections that can arise from the ich itself, but yes stick with what the op is doing dont switch, I would say if no improvement within a week run some carbon for 24 hours do a 50% water change and switch to the rid ich plus.
coralbandit
Aquarium Advice Addict
^^ + 1^^
It is stress that brings out lots of issues.
I forgot to mention that the tank I am treating is my only real planted tank and has at least 7 orange laser cories that cost me $29 each 2 years ago.
The risk must be taken.
I am confident in my treatment but nervous of the outcome to speak correctly.
Some fish may be lost and that is tough to handle ,but again I would rather fail trying to do the right thing then being to soft.
Along with plants my tank has wood and a substrate.I have had to almost double my doses after day one to even see the color of med in the water column as orgasnics can absorb the meds and render them in effective.
IMO if you don't see color do water change per directions and dose again.
It is stress that brings out lots of issues.
I forgot to mention that the tank I am treating is my only real planted tank and has at least 7 orange laser cories that cost me $29 each 2 years ago.
The risk must be taken.
I am confident in my treatment but nervous of the outcome to speak correctly.
Some fish may be lost and that is tough to handle ,but again I would rather fail trying to do the right thing then being to soft.
Along with plants my tank has wood and a substrate.I have had to almost double my doses after day one to even see the color of med in the water column as orgasnics can absorb the meds and render them in effective.
IMO if you don't see color do water change per directions and dose again.
Is the med outdated? I had that issue when I got it with my clowns I added it and it didn't touch the color of the water, I checked and it was a year out of date got my new bottle and my tank went immidiately blue, I hope you don't lose any CB, i did a half a dose my first day to see for reactions, I saw none so I did the full dose from then on out, ich was gone in 5 days I treated for 9 with a gravel vac every day for 3 days then every other day until treatment was completed.
Yeah my Texas holey rock is a light shade of blue #sadface
Thanks everyone, I'll stick with what I'm doing for now and hope for the best! If I don't see results I will definitely try mentioned products above, I'm really nervous but will accept what ever out come I get as long as it's gone!! Thanks for the article, I'll have a read up soon, ironically iv just landed myself in hospital over night so will give me some good reading!
Oh it wasn't mentioned, if you have carbon in your filter you have to remove it as it removes meds and renders them null, if you have a cartridge filter like a whisper or a biowheel any type of filter that takes a cartridge they have carbon in them, you will need to cut a slit in the bottom of the material and empty the carbon out, hope your better soon.
I'm all for the established no med methods when possible. IMO they only work if the infestation is caught very early on. While transitioning my display tank from a S.A. bio type to a CA cichlid setup, I stocked a juv. Texas cichlid, which had been QT for a week I'm my 65 gal
grow out tank. Within a week, both tanks were infested with Oodinium.
Being a little over confident, I treated the display tank with the no med method, "Black out tank, heat, and gravel vacs". I treated the grow out tank with Coppersafe. Results 90% loss in display tank, 10% loss in grow out tank. I went ahead and treated the display tank with Coppersafe, and the remaining fish recovered after 3 days. I'm going to continue treating for a few more weeks.
Bandit, if your Ick med doesn't work, might consider Coppersafe. Hasn't hurt my catfish, directions say might damage fragile plants. Rick, your blue Texas Holey rock is a good thing. The rock buffers your PH, keeping your PH above neutral. Many of the parasite meds become lethal if there is a PH crash. I think from this point on, I'm going to QT new fish with with a theraputic dose of Coppersafe.
grow out tank. Within a week, both tanks were infested with Oodinium.
Being a little over confident, I treated the display tank with the no med method, "Black out tank, heat, and gravel vacs". I treated the grow out tank with Coppersafe. Results 90% loss in display tank, 10% loss in grow out tank. I went ahead and treated the display tank with Coppersafe, and the remaining fish recovered after 3 days. I'm going to continue treating for a few more weeks.
Bandit, if your Ick med doesn't work, might consider Coppersafe. Hasn't hurt my catfish, directions say might damage fragile plants. Rick, your blue Texas Holey rock is a good thing. The rock buffers your PH, keeping your PH above neutral. Many of the parasite meds become lethal if there is a PH crash. I think from this point on, I'm going to QT new fish with with a theraputic dose of Coppersafe.
Angellove78
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ich, is like a cold to a child. Comes on anytime immune system is weak. Fish get stress with anything that's not comfortable to them. Large water changes, adding others, different water condition, anything that stresses them. Even breeders deal with it. It comes on anytime. Just gotta catch it fast. And always have a hospital tank or tote on hand.
Yeah i know about the Texas holey rock I was just saying the rid ich plus dyed it so now instead of being pitch white it's a tinted blue, looks a bit more natural than neon white as rocks don't stay bright white under water so it's okay in my book, sorry for your loses bud, I was advised to QT for 21 days, during that 21 days I should do a precaution dose for ich + worms/parasites, so I bought a bottle of prazipro (ouch btw) and another bottle of rid ich plus, also got a package of general cure so I can do a precaution dose for worms and parasites instead of just using the prazipro by itself even though it's for both worms and parasites, out if the new fish I haven't lost any I caught the ich when there was only a few spots on the fish, my last case I only lost the (cries) clown loaches
Thanks Rick. This sort of thing happens to all of us eventually. All the Oodinium did was speed up the transition to a Central American bio type. Thank goodness, that I had already re-homed and traded in many of the display fish. I did lose a 13 y.o. Synodontis catfish and others in the 6 and 7 y.o. range. I've been having fun buying new stock, stumbling into great finds. New challenges.
Sorry if this is a dumb question, the more gravel vacs I do the better during the treatment period right? And if I do one everyday I just have to replace the amount of meds for what i have taken out dont i? Also I used very fine chopped garlic mixed with the fish food this morning when I got home from the hospital, fish seemed to go nuts for it but is it ok to feed them the garlic in that way or is there a better method for garlic feeding. And lastly slightly off topic but curious, I have a flying fox, julii and panda cat fish would they eat the likes of zucchini and if so how do I just put a slice in or do I have to boil/prepair first?
Angellove78
Aquarium Advice Addict
With the replacement of meds after water change. I'm not sure with the meds your using. It should say on the back. I would think so. But some meds you don't have to. The garlic is fine how your doing it. I use the juice from minced garlic and soak till pellets are really soft. Zucchini, cucumber don't cook. Just cut a slice off about 1/4" and peel it. Put it on a fork and into tank, see if they like it.
I don't know if you read my post about having carbon in your filter but if you do this med won't do anything.
I have looked it up and it has malachite green, methylene blue, acriflavine, quinine, it's used to treat white spot, fungal infections, fin rot and tail rot, if you have carbon in your filter you have to remove the carbon that's step one,!
on the directions it says 1ml per 20 liters first day, third day 25% pwc and 1 ml per 30 liters, 7th day 25% water change and put activated carbon in filter (which the purpose is to remove the meds from the tank) , after 2-3 days you remove the carbon and throw it away.
This med is only a 2 dose med meaning you dose the tank twice and on the 7th day you put activated carbon in the tank to remove the leftover meds, I'm not entirely sure this will work with ich but to answer your question no you dose for the full tank I don't know what size the tank is but here's an example if your tank is a 30 gallon roughly 114 liters you would add 5.7 ml I would just do 5.5 ml for a 30 gallon.
What size is your tank and I will do the math for you
I have looked it up and it has malachite green, methylene blue, acriflavine, quinine, it's used to treat white spot, fungal infections, fin rot and tail rot, if you have carbon in your filter you have to remove the carbon that's step one,!
on the directions it says 1ml per 20 liters first day, third day 25% pwc and 1 ml per 30 liters, 7th day 25% water change and put activated carbon in filter (which the purpose is to remove the meds from the tank) , after 2-3 days you remove the carbon and throw it away.
This med is only a 2 dose med meaning you dose the tank twice and on the 7th day you put activated carbon in the tank to remove the leftover meds, I'm not entirely sure this will work with ich but to answer your question no you dose for the full tank I don't know what size the tank is but here's an example if your tank is a 30 gallon roughly 114 liters you would add 5.7 ml I would just do 5.5 ml for a 30 gallon.
What size is your tank and I will do the math for you
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