Ich: How Long With High Temps?

[Meaile]

I am new to this and unfortunately didn't know enough about keeping fish before I found this site and learned about cycling....

I have ordered a master test kit through Big Als but it won't be here until next monday.

Heres what I did....

2 1/2 months ago I started up a 29 and let it run for about a week with 2 of the gallons of water from a friends tank and about 2 cups worth of her gravel.

After that week I purchased 2 Red Wag Platys and 2 Sunsets.

Every week I got a couple more fish until I had 4 Platys, 2 Cardinal Tetras, 4 Neon Tetras, 4 Cherry Barbs and 2 White Cloud Tetras.

Last week I broght home 2 Blue Platys (the last I plan to get) and by the next day I saw Ich spots only on the Blues.

I gradually over a day and a half raised the temp up to 87 and added a couple air stones. I didn't use salt because I read on here somewhere that Tetras can't handle it.

All the fish were doing fine. No flashing, no spots after the 3rd day and swimming happily, playing in the bubbles and eating.

Now it has been 4 days with the temp up and I noticed the Sunset Platys are flashing and I had a Neon die. Everyone else looks good as usual.

I've been doing 30% water changes every other day since I saw the Ich.

How long should I keep the temp up and am I doing anything wrong? (other than not having a test kit yet....)

Sorry so long but I want to give as much info as possible.

 

[Meaile]

I went back and read the article again. 2 weeks. Oops.

 

[Rach101]

Im not sure it will effect anything, but when i had ich i did 20% water changes daily,.

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Meaile,
I'm glad you found the article on ich! It's very informative. I would do as Rach suggests and do daily water changes. This will remove more ich in the free-swimming stage, and it's also a good idea, since your tank is fairly new, and you don't have a test kit, to do daily water changes of about 30%. Your tank should be cycled after two and a half months, and you did start with a handful of gravel from an existing tank (the actual water doesn't hold very much good bacteria) and brought fish home gradually, but without a test kit to verify, I would keep up the daily changes.

I would keep the temperature up to 87 degrees, and do daily water changes for two weeks. If you want to be super sure that all the ich is gone, you could keep the temperature up for an additional week, if none of the fish look stressed. Keep the air stones and surface agitation up (you could try lowering the water level just a bit so that the filter "splashes" the water on its return to the tank). Warmer water holds less oxygen.

 

[Meaile]

Great! I'll definitely do the daily water changes and I'll lower the water level.

I don't think I'll buy from my lfs anymore....I've seen a tank shut down with Ich every time I went in. Its the only one in the area....

Unfortunately I live 70 miles from the next town that has fish stores, but they have really good ones.

I'm sure I'll have a post about transporting fish in a couple of months when I have my second tank up and cycled.

 

[Meaile]

Update: I had another Platy die this morning and I did a water change right after I plucked him out. I've been doing the daily water changes.

One Platy hangs out in the top corner, 3 hang out on the bottom and one looks normal except for a tiny spot of white fluff on his lip that was gone last time I looked. Two are flashing.

All the Tetras appear to not notice the high temps and I have not seen any signs of Ich.

I fear my Platys are doomed....

 

[Meaile]

Burn on me.... I give up. Both blues are hanging around on the bottom looking horrible with red gills. The red is laying at the surface, not gasping though. One Tetra is completely white, gasping, has pop eye and scales sticking out all over. I'm going to flush him shortly....

All signs point to ammonia poisoning but I'm doing 30% water changes every day. Yesterday twice....

I'll get the tester kit on monday and check everything. I feel terrible.... and it all started with the Ich. Once I raised the temperature everything went bad.

 

[greenmaji]

sounds like you needed some Maracyn as well..ACK!
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4838&N=2004+113521
You might want to step up to 50-75% pwc's every day until you can get a test kit..
When you turn up the heat the other problems go into high gear.. This helps for QT so that you dont get sick fish into your main tank.. Hope this helps you in the near future..

 

[Meaile]

I did another 30 pwc right after I posted. I'm going to do a 75 first thing in the morning....

What I don't get is how I can have fish that aren't getting sick and fish that are. Maybe I should lower the temps and take my chances with Ich....Dunno....I'll think on it.

I'll call around tomorrow and see if I can locate this Maracyn and If not then the Lfs is open on monday. Thanks for the heads up.

Can 15 little fish really make that much ammonia?

 

[Meaile]

I did another 30 pwc right after I posted. I'm going to do a 75 first thing in the morning....

What I don't get is how I can have fish that aren't getting sick and fish that are. Maybe I should lower the temps and take my chances with Ich....Dunno....I'll think on it.

I'll call around tomorrow and see if I can locate this Maracyn and If not then the Lfs is open on monday. Thanks for the heads up.

Can 15 little fish really make that much ammonia?

 

[greenmaji]

It is just a 29 gallon right.. 15 little fish can make some ammonia..
I know that some 24hr department stores carry Maracyn.. Meijer does but that might not be any help to you in your area..

How bad is the ich? I would assume that it would be best to kill it now while you are already part of the way there.. JMO though.. you can dose the Maracyn as well but Im pretty sure if you had an established filter that it would kill the bactera.. its an antibiotic..

Do you have a QT tank for future fish aquisitions.. so you dont have to put the entire tank through this again.. I would advise you set one up if the fish your getting are going to have this kind of problems...

Hope things start turning out better for you.. I think most of us have had a problem with livestock suppliers before.. in other words had to QT all fish and treat them before putting them in our main tanks, or wish we did once it was all said and done.. 8O

Good Luck

 

[Meaile]

As far as I can see the Ich isn't there. I only saw Ich on the 2 new fish (Blues) the second day I had them so I started raising temps, this was the 17th.

On the 18th there were no more spots. I have not seen spots since.

Early am on the 25th I saw some flashing. None since then.

Still no spots and the temps have been up for 8 days.

Along with the master kit I have a filter/heater etc; coming to start up a qt tank in a ten gal.

I wish I had researched alot better before I started....

About 8 years ago I kept an Oscar in a 55 and an Angel, 4 catfish and 6 Cory's in a 29 gal. I gave the Oscar (Piggle) to someone I knew with a 75 gal after having him for 2 years and I left the 29 gal with a roommate when I moved out about 3 years ago. I didn't know a thing about cycling or nitrates/nitrites or anything. I only knew about temps and chlorine/chloramine and I never had any problems.... the 4 Catfish and 2 or the Cory's are still alive and well (the Angel died last year).

I promised these new fish that I will make them better and, dang it, thats what I'm going to do :x

 

[greenmaji]

As long as you have plenty of airation I would keep up the temperature for the remander of the 2 weeks... The fish look better long before the ich is killed..
I would start in with the Maracyn asap.. if you still have the popeye and other symptoms explained earlier with some of your fish..

 

[Meaile]

Water Update:

Here is what I have. I tested everything twice to make sure....

Ammonia 0 / Nitrite 0 / Nitrate 40 / PH - 7.6

Is this a normal Ph? It seems kinda high. My tap water is 6.8.

Fish Update:

The Blues are swimming around and eating again although one looks bent, kindof curled to the side but she swims ok. Everybody else looks fine.

I think part of what was going on might be because of heat fluxuation. We had a few 80 degree days and then a couple 100's and the last 2 were 70ish. on the two hot days the tank got up to 89 but now its back to the 86/87. I don't know, just a theory.

Should I continue with the 50% water changes?

 

[Meaile]

*Update* I'm on my 3rd day of regular temps and all seems well. Since 6/27 I have been testing my water and it has been mostly the same.

The ammonia and Nitrites have stayed at 0. The Nitrate jumped to 80 for a few days and its back to 40 again. It could be the piece of driftwood I added, I dont know.

Since the first test my PH has been 7.8 every time. I found a site explaining the process to test the tap waters PH and I found out I did it improperly the first time (see previous post). I followed the directions and retested 2 times and my tap water is PH 8.4. For sure.

The Blue Platys look alot better but still not perfect. I saw one of them flash today and they have the stringy white poop. I ordered some Metronidazole and hopefully that will help.

The Neon Tetra that died must have died of Neon Tetra disease as he/she had ALL the symptoms. As for the dead Platy I'm guessing stress.

The two Sunset Platys (males) are very aggressive, one especially, and they are twice the size of the Blue Platys (both females). I think that part of their not thriving has to be stress related. I have seen them being herded and chased many, many times by the Sunsets. The remaining Red Wag Platy is femaile as well.

Should I add another female Platy or two? After I get my QT tank up though, dont want to go through this again. Plus I'm not positive the regular tank is healthy yet, although the water quality appears to be very good.

 

[patagonia]

the only way to reduce nitrAtes is by doing water changes...i dont think its related to the driftwood...i keep my nitrates under 20 by regular water changes...HTH...

 

[Meaile]

Is it possible to have Nitrates in tap water?

Would Algae have any affect on that?

Oh and I must have goofed on testing the ph of the tap water the second time too I followed the directions again and did everything the same way I did it the second time and this time I got a reading of 7.8, an exact match to my tank, which makes ALOT more sense.

To test the tap water I filled up a 2 gal bucket (the one I use for water changes), dechlorinated (.25 ml of Prime) and added an airstone in the water for 15 hours. I don't know where I goofed using this method the first time but I must have given the 8.4 reading.

 

[Menagerie]

Nitrates can be in the water supply. Most fish can tolerate nitrates to 60-80ppm. Algae should be taking up the nitrates as an engery source.
That's quite a bit for a pH test! Allowing a cup of tap water to sit out over night would have also worked