Ich, tail rot, both? New to aquarium keeping Please help....

[Kriyo87]

I have a 20gallon tank with two small (2in) Goldfish (black moor and oranda). I purchased the oranda a few days ago and didn't realize I needed to isolate him before adding him to my tank. Now both fish have several white flecks on their fins only and their fins look frayed and transparent near the edges. Also, the black moor is clamping his fins and hanging towards the top of the tank. (not gasping, just friggin hovering, he looks so sad). He was doing this before I added the oranda, but showed no other signs of illness and was eating well.

Also, I'm ashamed to note that my filter was previously MIA after it ceased functioning two weeks ago. I did 25% water changes every 3 days and after battling with Marineland on my warranty, I bought a new Penguin 150 today.

Did a 50% water change, vacuumed sand, and tested water. Can't remember exact numbers but everything was in the normal range except Hardness was high and pH was about 8. Water temp is at 68degrees.

After noticing the tail rot and cloudy eyes on my black moor, I dosed with Maracyn Two. (had it on hand). I've had the moor for 5 months. The tank has been established since January. I had another moor in there a month ago, but he passed away, though I saw no visible symptoms other than a general listlessness and hanging on the bottom before he kicked the bucket.

The oranda seems fine save for the three or four white spots on his fins and some slight fraying of the tail come to think of it.

My question is, is it okay to treat tail rot and ich at the same time or will I dose em to death? My plan was to add kosher salt to tank to tackle the ich and help his fins heal. Is this alright?

 

[FishFanatic88]

Not sure about kosher salt. You may know more on the topic, but i do know some people use aquarium salt salt to treat ick. if you know for sure kosher salt works then use it. i have just never heard of it being used in fishtanks.

 

[christine2012]

You can use kosher salt as long as its pure!
With the new filter, my guess is you're going to see a cycle. Watch params for awhile and perform pwcs as needed. Also get yourself a bottle of Prime. It will come in really handy.

 

[jlk]

Hi and welcome to AA!!!! Can I ask what your using to test your water (strips?)? What are your exact numbers in ppm for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate? Can possibly post a pic of your fish? Do the white spots look like grains of sand sprinkled on the fish or do they look fuzzy? This is important to for figuring out the best means for treatment. If you do have ich, maracyn2 will not treat it but it will help control bacterial infections (fin rot). I suspect theres water quality issues due to the addition of a new fish & the new filter which must be addressed or all the meds in the world will not help your fish. This means daily 50% water changes with temp matched, properly conditioned water. Try to do the wcs around the same time every day then redose the maracyn2. Have you added any salt yet? If so, exactly how much? Some more information will help us to help you better!

 

[Kriyo87]

Thanks for responding. I always use prime to condition my water and used the old biofilter from my last filter in the new one. The filter is running without carbon because I'm using the Maracyn 2 for the fin rot. I'm on day three of five with the maracyn and I added salt two days ago.

Salt solution: added one teaspoon of kosher salt for every gallon in tank. Have done this two days in a row. Will do one more day of this and observe.

Ph: 7.5
Nitrate: under 20ppm
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Hardness: 75ppm (much lower, maybe due to salt addition)
Alkalinity: 120ppm
Ammonia: 0-0.2
Temp: 72 degrees (raising 1-2 degrees each day)

Using Mardel mini master test strips.

Also, i came home from work to discover that my tank is completely covered in a white fuzzy blanket like material. My hunch is that this is bacteria. Water was already cloudy due to Maracyn 2 and now it's got this fuzz coat. Fish are fine. Have not fed them in two days because I'm holding off on water changes until the Maracyn is done. I noticed the tail rot first, though I wish I had waited it out, as I am wondering if it is a secondary infection.

Ich or fungus? It started as small salt like spots and they now look fuzzy. Well, my whole tank looks fuzzy along with everything in it. The fish photo has motion blur. There are no hairy, snot like looking things coming off his fins. Couldn't get him to pose. I've dealt with fungus before and this looks similar. But what's worrying me is some cloudiness in his eyes and the fact that my oranda was trying to rub himself on some plants and the sand, which made me think ich.

Also, the fuzz in the tank and on my plants is flowing and strand, like. The black moor is actually trying to eat it. Its on the glass too, in strandy kind of snot like wisps. It breaks down and wipes away very easily. It started in the last nine hours.

Like I said, I'm trying to hold off on WC until Monday. Until then I'll test the water every day and monitor changes.

Help! What IS this stuff?

Thanks guys!

Kristen

 

[Kriyo87]

Those pics are terrible, but the spots in question are the blurry bits on his fin closest to us towards the right. Today, they started looking like fuzzy finger-like growths rather than small speck-like things.

Will salt eradicate fungus or help it flourish?

I'll post more pics tomorrow and try to get one of the oranda

 

[jlk]

First, get yourself a good liquid test kit. Strips are inaccurate at best. You have high nitrites and you also likely have high ammonia. Both of these are causing the eye cloudiness & are contributing to the fungus issues. The meds are useless without unhealthy water. Change their water ASAP. Change 50%, wait an hour, then change another 50%. Then you can redose the maracyn2. If you have dealt with fungus before, this is indicative of water quality issues that need to be dealt with and the cause of the unhealthy water needs to be addressed. Lastly, stop raising the temp. Fancies do not deal well with warm water and the warmer water will cause any bad bacteria to multiply even faster.

Healthy water should be your number one priority here- without it, they can not heal & their condition will continue to worsen nor will the meds work. Please ask if you have questions!

 

[Kriyo87]

Thanks! I'll get a liquid kit tomorrow. How's the API liquid kit? I'm on a tight budget this month and i've already spent $100 on fish supplies this week! Did a water change, salted, and redosed maracyn 2. It's definitely ich, not fungus. These poor guys are covered in crystal looking specks. the last time I dealt with fungus, it was in a one gallon tank with no filter because I didn't know any better.

Bacterial bloom is under control after another water change. I plan on doing a 25% change tonight, keeping salt where it is, and adding ich medication. I will retest water tomorrow after buying a liquid kit and post my numbers.

 

[jlk]

Yep, the API kit is the most recommended. No ich meds are needed. They can be treated very easily with salt. You already have 1tsp/g in there, correct? Increase this to @3tsp/g or 11.4grams/g (.3% salinity). A scale is much more accurate for dosing salt. Premix the additional salt in a container of conditioned water until its completely dissolved. Then add it slowly over over a 24-48hr period of time. When you do water changes, add back only the salt you are removing (ie, 50%wc, add back 1/2 dose). Make sure its predissolved before adding it back. Maintain the .3% salinity for one week after the last spot is gone then gradually reduce it with water changes until its back to normal. It should be completely cleared within 2wks.

 

[Kriyo87]

I lost the Oranda today. Tested my water with those crap strips and decided to double dose with prime. Salt is at 0.3%. The black moor looks terrible. I think he's a goner. should i get some coppersafe? How can I get my nitrite and ammonia down FAST?

 

[jlk]

I am sorry about your oranda No coppersafe- it will likely kill your remaining fish at this point. How high are your ammonia & nitrite right now? This is the likely cause of both the illness & demise. Do you have a couple of 5 or 10g buckets? Temp match, condition & predissolve .3% salt in a bucket with an airstone. Move the moor to the bucket. Then, do a 100% water change on the 20g with temp matched, properly conditioned water & add back .3% salt (predissolved). Use a thermometer to be sure the temp is exactly the same from the tank to the bucket and then from the bucket back to the tank. Make sure the salt doses are exact & predissolved. Then move the moor back. This should bring your amm& nitrite to zero in the tank. You will then need to be religious on testing the water daily or even twice daily to be sure the water remains healthy so he can have some hope of recovering. Good luck!

 

[Kriyo87]

Got the API water test. Ammonia and nitrites are both at zero. Nitrates at 5. Ph seems high at 8 but that probably hasn't fluctuated since I've had him. (6mo). My black moor looks awful and he's starting to swim lop-sided. Salt is at .3. Did a 25% WC and made up for lost salt. Temp is at 72 and I'll try to bring it down tomorrow with another WC. Can I go down to 70 or is that too fast?

I still have these fuzzy wisps on my glass. Removed all ornaments and washed out filter in some tank water. Cleaned glass, but it's still there. Could this be harmful.

I tried feeding him a pea tonight to combat the lopsidedness but he won't eat. I've been fasting him since he's been sick, about four days now. He can't be constipated, right?

Also, could this shift in my cycle be from my filter being busted for a week? I changed the water 25% every other day while it was being replaced, and the fish was fine. Then upon installing filter with old bio wheel is when I ran into problems.

Thanks again for your help. You guys are great. The pet store people don't know jack. I found an aquarium shop in my area and I'll be going to them from now on

 

[clownfish18]

By the picture it looks like tail rot but by your description it sounds like ich so maybe both? But more likely tail rot. They have medication for it at your lfs.

 

[jlk]

Your temp is fine- dont even bother adjusting it. I am truly sorry he is not doing well. I highly doubt he is constipated especially if he hasnt eaten in days. I would try offering him some fresh protiens (not freeze dried) such as brine shrimp, bloodworms or bits of human shrimp/salmon and see if he is interested in food at all.

 

[Kriyo87]

I lost Cagney, my black moor, yesterday. My tank is now fishless . Won't be adding new ones until my levels are stable again. I've added the carbon back into the filter to remove maracyn 2 and rid ich medicine. I've done a 75% water change and removed the substrate (sand--what a pain lemme tell ya!). Kept salt at .3% to kill off any ich that's hanging out. This should do it right? From my research, I've heard ich won't live more than a few days without a host. I have a moss ball i've isolated in some tank water. Is that infected?

I've also added a dose of stress zyme plus and some goldfish pellets to keep up my bio filter. Am I doing everything correctly?

Thanks again for all your help, especially you JKL. You are well educated in the ways of aquaria.

 

[jlk]

I am so sorry I would dispose of the moss ball. Do you have access to any pure ammonia? This would be a better way to cycle your tank & keep it cycled. I honestly would not add fish for atleast 2-3wks and I would make sure your tank can convert 4ppm of ammonia fully to nitrate in 24hrs before even considering adding another fish. Fish food simply will not provide enough ammonia to cycle this tank if you plan on adding another heavy bioload fish such as a goldfish. If you decide on goldfish again, only stock a single fish. Heres the fishless cycle link in case you have not read this before:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...guide-and-faq-to-fishless-cycling-148283.html