Ich Whatta Weekend!

[wilson]

So Friday I came home and realized my about 6-7" goldfish is doing really bad. Its not moving much, its fins look ripped apart, and its has what looks like burns or rashes all over it. So I do about a 40% water change and just let it be. So i wake up Saturday, hes still doing horrible, his fins look a lot worse and the water is cloduy almost milky, so i do another 20% or so water change, and add a little extra dechlorinator that helps scales(not a lot extra though). This morning I wake up and he was dead, It was sad because i liked him alot and i thought he was somewhat personable. But the tank still looked a tad cloudy so i do another 10% pwc and my small black moor and snail seem to be doing fine. I also had put extra filtration and ariation in the tank throughout the time being. It had and AC200 a buble wall, and an ac 201 powerhead with sponge to try and clear a bit of the water. Another bad thing happened this morning besides my dead goldfish, my 10 gallon to be planted tank has an ich breakout. Its inhabitants are 1 male betta 3 black neon tetras and an adf. Also snails that came on the piece of hornwort i have. So now i hjave a dead fish and an ich infested tank. What should i do about the ich, i am unsure if i will be able to get to any lfs soon. My mom said to use peroxide but i wasnt sure if that would be good so i thought id get help form here.


Off-topic but to make matters worse it was really really busy at my work tonight. It wasnt the best weekend i have ever had lol.

 

[carpediem]

Ich: you will need medication for it from your lfs (e.g. quick cure). But for now, turn your lights off (I understand you do not yet have plants in there) and cover the sides with newspaper.
You will need feed-back on the following:
I am not sure, whether bettas tolerate salt at all. The tetras should tolerate salt without additives if you add it 2 tsp per 10 gal at a time (up to 4, but do not add it at once), dissolved in the fresh water you are adding when doing partial water changes.
What a horrible weekend. Sorry to hear that.

 

[ChileRelleno]

So sorry to hear about you losing your Goldie
All the usual questions,

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
You've been around AA for awhile, you know the score...
Perhaps we can keep any re-occurences from happening to other tanks/fish.

Same goes for the ICH infestation... ?????????'s
Read this article,http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32
Make up your mind how you want to treat it and go with it.
I recommend the Heat & Salt, my Bettas have never had a problem with salt, we use salt on our female Bettas whenever they re-establish their pecking order .
Not sure why Carpediem wanted you to cover you tank with newspaper for, but turning the lights off will help reduce stress, but no need to black it out.

 

[carpediem]

Not sure why Carpediem wanted you to cover you tank with newspaper for, but turning the lights off will help reduce stress,

The point of covering the tank is not for the stress relieve of the fish. Ich is sensitive to light and depriving the parasite of the light source helps with treatment.

 

[ChileRelleno]

Ich is sensitive to light and depriving the parasite of the light source helps with treatment.

Really, thats a new one to me,Hmmm, learning all the time.
I've read alteast half a dozen articles about ICH and treatment and can't find any reference to ICH being light sensitive, can you please provide me with a link to this information (ICH, light sensitivity) so as I can gain more knowledge, thank you.

 

[wilson]

Ill have to fill everyone in tonight when im done work, because i gotta get going. Thanks ffor everything though.

 

[carpediem]

I have read quite a few "success" stories with treating ick by (among others) blocking out the light for a non-medication option. So that has nothing to do with medication being sensitive to light. I will check for more links. In the meantime this one under number 4, I believe. Hope you have success in dealing with your ick.

www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html#3

 

[ChileRelleno]

I recently stumbled across your web page with great delight. There are
very few things I enjoy more than MORE DATA about my hobby.

While browsing through the FAQ section, I read your section on
freshwater ick and want to pass on a new treatment option I recently
used with complete success. Several months ago I read in TFH magazine an
article discussing non-medicinal treatment for ick. One option involved
enclosing the infected tank in cloth and removing the light source. to
achieve complete darkness for 48 hours. A few weeks later I tried this
treatment to fight an outbreak in a 125g tank housing several large SA
Cichlids. It worked magnificently without exposing my breeders to
medication!

Any word on this from your end?

Best regards,

R. Scott Holmes

How interesting, this bears more study.
Thank you for the link it points me towards "TFH magazine" for more research into this possible treatment. It bears much study though, before I would attempt to use it or recommend it to another fishkeeper.
Knowledge is POWER!

Note; I personally am not dealing with a ICH problem just trying to help others and learn more in the process

 

[wilson]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
It was a goldfish. It had what looked like rashes/burns on the one side of its body, it had what looked like big blisters on it(its had these for a while but i couldnt figure out what they were), its fins all looked shredded up, they were also very red closer to its body.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

Please dont hate me, but i dont really test my water i have been meaning to get to it ever since i joined this site, but i havent. I just pwc every week(mostly) unless the tank gets really dirty, then i do it then. I think i may have had an ammonia spike because my mom put a whole lot of food in the tank when iwasnt there. The ttemp was between 68-70 the whole time.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
Thank tank is a 20g, its been set up for almost a year.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

I am using an AC 200 also have a bubbler on there, and then put an ac201 PH while he was battling the disease.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?

There were two goldfish and 1 snail. The gold fsih are Fantail(the one that died), and a black moor, and im not sure on the snail. The fantail was about 6-7" with tail, and the black moor is probably about 2.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

About 2 weeks ago, it was probably a good 40% because i wasnt sure if id get to it the next week right away, i had been busy with school. I try to do it every week but like i said sometimes its every 2 weeks.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

I had the fish since April 2003/2004(cant remember, but its been a while)when i got it from a friend.
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Just the black moor and snail probably about 1 month ago.

So should i try putting the tank with ich in complet darkness? I only have a hornwort but its doing good Any other advice on meds i could get for the ich. Thanks. Should i try the darkness or get some aquarium salt and turn the heat up. What temo should i go too.

 

[wilson]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the beset of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
It was a goldfish. It had what looked like rashes/burns on the one side of its body, it had what looked like big blisters on it(its had these for a while but i couldnt figure out what they were), its fins all looked shredded up, they were also very red closer to its body.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

Please dont hate me, but i dont really test my water i have been meaning to get to it ever since i joined this site, but i havent. I just pwc every week(mostly) unless the tank gets really dirty, then i do it then. I think i may have had an ammonia spike because my mom put a whole lot of food in the tank when iwasnt there. The ttemp was between 68-70 the whole time.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
Thank tank is a 20g, its been set up for almost a year.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

I am using an AC 200 also have a bubbler on there, and then put an ac201 PH while he was battling the disease.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are there current sizes?

There were two goldfish and 1 snail. The gold fsih are Fantail(the one that died), and a black moor, and im not sure on the snail. The fantail was about 6-7" with tail, and the black moor is probably about 2.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

About 2 weeks ago, it was probably a good 40% because i wasnt sure if id get to it the next week right away, i had been busy with school. I try to do it every week but like i said sometimes its every 2 weeks.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

I had the fish since April 2003/2004(cant remember, but its been a while)when i got it from a friend.
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

Just the black moor and snail probably about 1 month ago.

So should i try putting the tank with ich in complet darkness? I only have a hornwort but its doing good Any other advice on meds i could get for the ich. Thanks. Should i try the darkness or get some aquarium salt and turn the heat up. And please dont think im a bad fish keeper. Thanks again. If i slowly raise my tank temp. to 86 like it says in the article, will my betta, black neon tetras and african dwarf frog be ok.

 

[ChileRelleno]

Wilson,
Don't take this wrong (I've been there and done that, almost the exact same thing with a goldie ), but what you have is called TTHS.
"The Tank from Hell Syndrome" LOL
If you can't laugh, you'll go crazy...

After reading your symptom descriptions and researching, I've come to the conclusion that your Goldie died from, septicemia, internal and/or external bacterial infections and ammonia poisoning.
If you examine this diagnostics chart you'll probably concur,
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist4.htm
OK, now that the cause of death is established, lets see what we can do to prevent it from re-occurring and tackle the ICH.

Now "If" this was my tank, this is what "I" would do...
You "may" lose some more fish/Frog, but if you don't, you definitely will.
(1)Vacumn gravel & PWC 20-25%, check and clean filters if necessary.
(2)Get test kits for PH, NH3, NO2, NO3 and use them daily until your water chemistry is under control.
(3)Raise the water temp to 86'f slowly, yet as quickly as possible (See ICH article).
(4)Add salt to the water, start with a half dose and watch your Tetras and ADF for acute stress. Quarantine the ADF if possible (See ICH article).
(5)Turn off the lights, less stress.
(6)PWC's as indicated by test results.
(7)Keep temps up for atleast two weeks (See ICH article).
(8)Drastically cut feedings, 1/4-1/2 of normal, every other day during treatment.
(9)"IF", if the ICH is not clearing after a week, medicate (See ICH article).
(10)Keep your mother away from your tank LOL


Okeydokey... Its two or three weeks later.
All the ICH is gone, the water chemistry is perfect and your fishies are happy.
Now its time to make a tank maintenance schedule...
NO EXSCUSES, it only takes about a hour once a week :x
(1)Keep your mother away from your tank until you educate her.
(2)Weekly 20-25% PWC & gravel vacumning, check & clean filter if needed.
(3)Weekly water test, PH, NH3, NO2, NO3 and take action as needed.
(4)Establish a feeding schedule, same time everytime if possible.
(5)Start a tank diary, list test results, maintenance, problems, new fish and just about anything fish related.
(6)Take time everyday to watch and enjoy your fish, use this time to observe for anything unusual.
(7)Enjoy your fish!

And last but not least...
Please keep posting here at AA and other websites. Never stop learning and growing, read, research, and discuss with other people your fish and anything that catches your interest.
Your gonna do great because your willing to ask questions and your fish will love you for it.

 

[mortalum620]

peroxide=dead fish...never put any chemicals in ur tank that u dont get from ur lfs...other than that id have to agree with chile...

 

[wilson]

Ok thanks everyone. My mom is actually really good with the other tanks, she just fed the goldie tank too much. I think thats what she normally feeds them but since the goldie wasnt good it just didnt eat the food. And either when i get my tax money back or my next pay check ill get on to getting test kits. Im hoping to get sme salt tomorrow because i have no time to get to the lfs. The tank is sitting in complete darkness though, and i will began water changes. Should i do these everyday on the ich tank. Thanks.

 

[RoK]

Water changes every other day should be fine but you can do every day.

 

[wilson]

Ok I got some aquarium salt tonight. Its made by Nutrafin and i hope its the right stuff, Its says for treatment so i thought it wold work. What i was thinking of doing was waiting till tomorow afternoon to start the salt treatment and let my darkness treatment finish. 48 hours of complete darkness should be done tomorrow around 3 and then i will see what needs to be done.
As always thanks.