internal parasites

[MisticX]

one of my fish (Actually i think more of them) are having a very transparent and stringy poop,

this gets me to think they have internal parasites... what should i give them?

i am in canada, and most the sites in US are not delivering in CA,
so PLS (if possible) gimme a site that delivers in ca.

 

[jsoong]

Petsmarts in town stock Jungle's antiparasite food - which is quite good for internal parasites (containing both Prazi & Flagyl). Big Al's <http://www.bigalsonline.ca/> also carry a good assortment of fish meds, and they will mail order if you don't have a store near you.

However, what make you think that your fish is sick and have internal parasites? I hate to just randomally toss in drugs. At the minimal, you need to check your water parameters, and do a large water change to start. Most fish problems are due to poor water & fixing that is key. At any rate, we can't really recommend anything without knowing what fish it is, size of tank, fish behaviour, etc.

Having stringy poop may be simple constipation, or the wrong kind of food eaten. Doesn't necessarily mean an infection.
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[MisticX]

here ... you can read the tank's diary


not sure if this will work

Fish - 29 gal - V1-firestarter

 

[MisticX]

i feed them peas and spiruline flakes every week at least 2-3 times, so i doubt it 's constipation.

it's not ich because i treated them for ich (both temp and Jungle Lab's Ich Clear)
it's not bacterial because i treated him with Jungle Lab Fungus Clear

water conditions are PRISTINE for the past 4 weeks (at least)

 

[MisticX]

the fish is dead ;((

i left it in the quarantine tank to see what happens (floats or not)
it doesn't float, so it's obviously not a natural death.

furthermore, it has developed a ... hmm ... how to call it ?... kinda like when the skin stood too much in the water and it increased in volume

all his body surface is covered in this substance/parasite.

is this ich ?

 

[MisticX]

it's somehow like a cloud, about 2mm thick, white-ish, semi-transparent

 

[jsoong]

Sorry about the death. I hadn't been saying much since I am no expert on tropical community tanks, and I wish someone else would chimed in.

You link did not state tank size or current occupants, but I noticed the multiple fish deaths & presence of ammonia on some days. you have just gone through cycling? If so, I suspect a lot has to do with the stress of the cycling process itself.

FWIW :

Quote: "it's not ich because i treated them for ich (both temp and Jungle Lab's Ich Clear)"

How did you treat the ich, and for how long? Ich has a complicated life cycle, and can persists in the substrate even when the spots on the fish is gone. It is imperative that you treat for 2 weeks after all signs of ich is gone.

Quote: "it's not bacterial because i treated him with Jungle Lab Fungus Clear"

Just because you treated with something does not mean that the treatment is effective.

Quote: "it doesn't float, so it's obviously not a natural death."

Fish float after they die because decomposing process makes gas in the abdomen. If you catch the fish right after it died, it will sink ... so that really did not tell me much.

The description of the surface "stuff" is too vague to say what it is. Does this stuff appear before or after the death? This can be just thickened slime coat - non-specific indication that there is a skin infection - parasite, bacterial or fungal. If it looks like cotton wool spots, it is likely columnaris.

My best guess on what is happening in your tank is: You have fish through the cycling process. They are stressed and got ich. Then they get a secondary bacterail infection and that is why you are seeing the fish deaths. Without more details, this is just a guess. Someone else reading this has other thoughts???

 

[MisticX]

29 galons
i have right now
6 zebra danios (all in perfect health)
2 corydoras
4 platy
2 male guppy
4 molly (1 male 3 female)

the mollys are the ones that present the most often the disease signs.

ICH
i treated for 4 weeks the temperature way, and during those 4 weeks i treated twice (2 days apart) with the Jungle Labs Ich Clear, of course the right amount per gallon.
a couple of days after the end of the temperature treatment i boiled the existing gravel (all of it) for about 20-30 minutes (boil time)
i did treat for ich about 2 weeks after the last white spot was seen on one of the fish.

the dead fish
the "stuff" looks like a slime coat white cloudy, and it appeared RIGHT after it died.

the floating thing
as far as i am aware, if a fish dies and does not float 24 hours after it's death it means the fish was sick, (lack of oxygen that prevents the bloating ... or something alike)

the tank is planted, and the plants are doing just about fine, i have NO ideea what this could be.
OH and BTW, you say it might be a mini cycle... i do not think so ... i am testing the water parameters at least once every 2 days, and the WORST parameter was 0.6 ammonia... did PWC immediately.
also i am letting water age, and testing the PWC water too (zero all water conditions) ... PH is perfectly stable at 7.5,

 

[jsoong]

If you have the tank over 38-39F for 4 weeks, then it is unlikely to be ich.

There is nothing too specific in the signs & symptoms. White patches & thick slime coat may be velvet - another external parasite.

however, fish usu. only succumbs to diseases when stressed. Something has to stress them to reduce the immunity. I am simply guessing on the cycling since a cycled tank (esp. a planted one) should never show any ammonia (even the the low levels you are seeing). <This may be stupid: but your aged change water is dechlorinated, right?> Other stresses may be temperature swings, or even the treatment of the ich <high temp = low oxygen, and chemicals are harsh on fish>. Sometimes the effects of the stress don't show up for a few weeks. Finally, it might be that the fish is already sick with something chronic when you got them & is now living a shortened live. <This may well be if only one group of fish is showing problems while the rest are fine.>

For now, my suggestion is to watch the fish & keep the water parameters pristine. I tend not to treat my fish unless there is physical sign of disease (ie spots, ulcers, etc.) or if they have abnormal symptoms (ie clamped fins, lethergy, gasping at the surface, etc.)

 

[MisticX]

what is weird that ALL fish that i bought from a specific LFS are diseased (some recovered)

today my other molly (the one i love most) developed bubble eyes.
she has been sick already, and recovered (ich) ... about 6 weeks ago)

if this one dies
i swear i will throw out all my fish and gravel and put the tank in the street.

p.s. ... yes ... my aged water is de-Cl, i use Aqua Plus for that ;(((

 

[jsoong]

what is weird that ALL fish that i bought from a specific LFS are diseased (some recovered)

In that case it is likely there is an outbreak of something in the lfs. If it is taking 6 weeks or more before you see something, it would be something insidious .... maybe mycobacterium (ie fish tb). <Of course, all of this is just a guess!>

FAIK, getting popeye (that's what you mean by bubble eye?) is most likely an internal bacterial infection (at least that is the most treatable cause.) The second thing I'd do - after making sure the water is fine, maybe by doing a largish pwc & QTing the fish - would be to start on some antibiotics. Feeding antibiotic food is best, but if you can't find any, or if the fish isn't eating, then antibiotics in water in a QT. <Kanamycin is now considered the most effective antibiotic, as a lot of fish pathogens had now become resistant to the usual drugs.>

Also, do look carefully at the fish to make sure there is no other signs or spots that may point to a more definitive diagnosis & treatment.

This is a pretty good article on pop-eye: Aquamaniacs :: View article - Pop-eye - by Barb

Good luck wiht the fish .... I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[MisticX]

her right eye is now almost back to normal, but the left one popped, in addition if i look carefully i see white marks on her skin(or whatever you call it)
she is 80% back to speed, but i am not sure if it's because she gave birth or because of the anti parasitic food... or what else.
all in all i am glad she's back

i ordered antibacterial food, and some anti parasitic food.

ATM i feed them the anti parasitic because the platys are pooping long transparent strings (3-4-5 times their length)

 

[MisticX]

i have fed them the anti-parasitic food, and indeed the platys are no longer presenting the symptoms of parasites, plus i kinda see them a bit more active then usual (they do not like this food though)

on the other platter of the balance, the moly (female, black sailfin) went worse, didn't eat anything and started showing white spots ALL OVER her body (like a dalmatian)

i knew that i was supposed not to feed them anything else for 4 days (prescriptions from the anti-parasitic product) but i did start feeding them the anti-bacterial Jungle Labs one.

the progression of the white spots on the molly stopped (day1)
now it's day 2 and the white spots are almost gone.

i am taking this as a relief sign, BUT i am still "en guarde"


anyone has any input ?

 

[jsoong]

Those are indeed good signs. It is OK to feed both anti-parasite & antibiotics foods. The Goldies forums usu. suggests ignoring Jungle's instructions & just feed your fish with the anti-parasite food for a full week rather than the stop-start routine. I would continue with anti-biotic food for at least 14 days even if the fish are all better before that time to prevent creating resistant bacteria.

 

[MisticX]

copy that

that leaves me 11-12 more days of feeding.

trouble is that they eat about 1/2 of the amount they used to eat before.

 

[jsoong]

What are you feeding them before? If flakes, prob normal - as those pellets are much more energy dense.

 

[MisticX]

What are you feeding them before? If flakes, prob normal - as those pellets are much more energy dense.

indeed flakes

jsoong, i notice my sick moly having a scales issue, all the scales on the birth-giving-part of her body are somehow unusual.
What i mean is that they are usually straight each one covering the next one, whilst right now they are somehow going apart from the body.
This happens on all her body, but whilst on the rest of the body it's negligible , her tummy looks like it's hurting.


As a sidenote, she IS pregnant, and i have never seen her THIS pregnant.
Usually she is round all way around, this time she is round only on the back side of the tummy

i will try to post a pic, but honestly i did not manage to get ANY clear enough (she's hiding in the plants)

 

[MisticX]

she's dead ;((

 

[jsoong]

So sorry to hear about that :-(

Scales sticking out like that is call pineconing, and that is a sign of Dropsy, or fluid accumulation in the body. This is usually secondary to kidney or heart failure & is almost impossible to treat. I've had dropsy 3 or 4 times before, and I've lost them all, in spite of drugs, temp, etc.

I think you did the best your could, it is unusual to save fish from dropsy even with heroic efforts. Again, sorry for the lost. I know that was your favorite fish.

 

[MisticX]

furthermore her tummy is REAL bloated, and from what is shows in the net yes i agree it's pineconing (water acumulation in tissue)


i feel real sad about her, she had such a nice personality, would have come "dance" with my hand when i'd drip it in water or feed them or just pass around the glass. ;((