Learning as I go - Ich with Tetras and Pleco

[Bobrummel]

I looked at my tank on Monday and noticed that some of my Lemon Tetras had a few white spots on them. I read up on the different options for treatment and decided to go with the salt + heat not realizing that my pleco could be more susceptible to the salt I had originally chosen this method because my tank is fairly new and didn't want my biofilter to suffer and had also read that meds can kill off nitrifying bacteria.

I slowly added my salt to 2tbs/gallon as I read someplace (I don't remember whether it was here or another forum) over the course of 24 hrs (my tank already had some salt in it) and then raised my temp up to 85 (from 78) over the next 16hrs. So I had my heat and salt up to "recommended" levels by Wednesday morning.

By Wednesday evening, my Albino BN Pleco had expired I'm here looking to see if anyone has an opinion of why he died. He was a baby (approx. 2.5"), so I don't know if the salt was just too much for his little body or if it was the heat or something else.

Please help me learn from my mistake so I don't lose another fish through ignorance. Thanks in advance.

 

[Exia]

Most of my fish died to Ich too when I kept them. You didn't take them out of the tank from the others?

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[Bobrummel]

No QT tank

I don't currently have a QT tank and that is all the fish I currently have/had...6 lemon tetras and the albino BN pleco.

I assumed that by the time I saw the white spots on two fish, that I should treat them all since they were all exposed.

Also, since my last post, I panicked and did a PWC of 50% to take some of the salt out because my tetras were looking sad. Now, I'm down to about 9 tablespoons in my 29 gallon tank or slightly less than 1 teaspoon per gallon. I have read that 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon is enough to kill the iChat's I could add another tablespoon if that would be enough and if I have any fosh left in the morning. Just for reference, my water is at 84 degrees.

Any thoughts? Is the salt and heat high enough or am I just wasting my time and making my fish die suffering? Should I just bite the bullet and use chemicals?

 

[tomtom14]

You should not add salt to an aquarium with bottom feeders. It will most likely kill all of them. This is why your bristlenose died. Just raise the temperature and keep it at what it is now, I know you can't change the salinity much now but it will kill pretty much all bottom feeders. If you have anymore bottom feeders do a 25% water change and replace it with water that does not have any salt in it. This will lower the salinity levels and hopefully give any other bottom feeders you have a fighting chance. If that was your only one you might as well leave the salt in, it only badly effects bottom feeders.


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[ImACoolguy]

You should not add salt to an aquarium with bottom feeders. It will most likely kill all of them. This is why your bristlenose died. Just raise the temperature and keep it at what it is now, I know you can't change the salinity much now but it will kill pretty much all bottom feeders. If you have anymore bottom feeders do a 25% water change and replace it with water that does not have any salt in it. This will lower the salinity levels and hopefully give any other bottom feeders you have a fighting chance. If that was your only one you might as well leave the salt in, it only badly effects bottom feeders.


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+1 and since it is ich, quarantine is not that useful. Ich manifests itself in the water and will get on all the fish whether you can see it or not. It's best to treat the whole tank. At 86 the ich is going full speed through its life cycle. Wait 3 weeks after the last physical sign of ich to be sure it is gone. I cranked mine to 90 as a last resort the one time I got ick. 90 just kills the ick completely and sometimes your own fish. It's risky.


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

Correct amount of salt?

So, what concentration of salt is the minimum amount needed to kill off the ich?

My tetras looked almost dead last night (at the bottom of the tank and not moving much), so I decided to take out some water and dilute it with nonsalted water.

Now I'm afraid I don't have enough salt to kill off the ich and only have enough it irritate my poor fish

 

[ImACoolguy]

I never used salt during my remedy. It's more used to soothe the fish. Best thing you can do is wait it out with the heat.


Caleb

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[keegster803]

I use heat, as the salt kills, as stated above. But I would just raise the heat, maybe vary the diet a little, as it might help, but that's about all you can do


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[Bobrummel]

Heat Concensus

So is there a consensus on what temperature is hot enough to kill the ich but cool enough to not poach my fish?

I have my thermometer on the far side of my tank in hopes of getting the temp of the coldest part of the tank. I have an ok amount of "drop" from my HOB with an airstone and bubbler, but I have read that the problem with heat/salt is that the hotter water makes the water less oxygenated (or oxygen available).

 

[ImACoolguy]

So is there a consensus on what temperature is hot enough to kill the ich but cool enough to not poach my fish?

I have my thermometer on the far side of my tank in hopes of getting the temp of the coldest part of the tank. I have an ok amount of "drop" from my HOB with an airstone and bubbler, but I have read that the problem with heat/salt is that the hotter water makes the water less oxygenated (or oxygen available).

You are correct. As the water gets warmer you need more oxygen.

90 degrees is what will kill ick.
86 degrees is a pretty safe level to speed up its life cycle.
90 degrees is risky if your fish are very weak from infection. Yours are.


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

Confused

You are correct. As the water gets warmer you need more oxygen.

90 degrees is what will kill ick.
86 degrees is a pretty safe level to speed up its life cycle.
90 degrees is risky if your fish are very weak from infection. Yours are.


Caleb

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So, if I have fish that can handle salt now (since pleco died), and I turn tank up to only 86 to speed up life cycle of Ich, what exactly kills the ich? Does the salt kill the ich? Do I have to use chemicals in the tank to kill ich if I don't want to go to 90?

Is the salt doing anything besides aiding in the healing? I thought I read that the salt disrupts the protozoa cell function and so it dehydrates before it can attach to a new host?

 

[ImACoolguy]

So, if I have fish that can handle salt now (since pleco died), and I turn tank up to only 86 to speed up life cycle of Ich, what exactly kills the ich? Does the salt kill the ich? Do I have to use chemicals in the tank to kill ich if I don't want to go to 90?

Is the salt doing anything besides aiding in the healing? I thought I read that the salt disrupts the protozoa cell function and so it dehydrates before it can attach to a new host?

Salt is nothing but a remedy that I am aware of. I'm not a doctor either though. Ick manifests itself on fish bodies. If the body dies well the ick dies. By turning up the heat and speeding up the cycle you are killing it faster than if you let it run its course. There is 4 stages of an ick life cycle.
1. Induced by stress in the fish, tankmate has ick, etc
2. Finds a host. Which would be one of your fish.
3. Manifests itself. This is where all the white spots start appearing.
4. Free floating. It detached and attempts to find more hosts.


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

Salt is nothing but a remedy that I am aware of. I'm not a doctor either though. Ick manifests itself on fish bodies. If the body dies well the ick dies. By turning up the heat and speeding up the cycle you are killing it faster than if you let it run its course.

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You just confused my little brain.
Am I killing the body of the fish or the body of the ich faster than letting it run its course? I want to cure my fish, not kill them faster!!

 

[ImACoolguy]

You are killing the ick faster. Not the fish. Sorry for the confustion


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

How Long?

How long do you keep the temps up after you see the last spots?

When can I declare my fish to be Ich Free?

 

[ImACoolguy]

How long do you keep the temps up after you see the last spots?

When can I declare my fish to be Ich Free?

Keep heat up 3 weeks are the last sign.

Don't add anything to the tank for 6+ weeks. This makes sure your new fish don't become a host any any of it that might survive.


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

No fish...check. Plants?

Keep heat up 3 weeks are the last sign.

Don't add anything to the tank for 6+ weeks. This makes sure your new fish don't become a host any any of it that might survive.


Caleb

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If I can't add fish for 6+ weeks, can I add plants?

 

[ImACoolguy]

I would say yes. Ich does not feed off plants that I am aware of.


Caleb

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[Bobrummel]

Thanks!

Thanks for all your help Caleb!!!

Here's to hoping the spots stay away and I am on my way towards my 6 weeks!!

 

[ImACoolguy]

Thanks for all your help Caleb!!!



Here's to hoping the spots stay away and I am on my way towards my 6 weeks!!

If this is a reoccurring problem, look at the fish closely from the LFS a before buying to make sure a tankmate or the one you want has ick. If a fish in the same tank has it, they can get it. A QT tank also helps ensure if they do get it it does not infect your display tank.


Caleb

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