Low pH and high ammonia after medication

[Kazza9]

Hi everyone, Background- got a 90L tank 9 months ago and took our time stocking it (about 3mths) and performing regular tests (liquid testing kit) to make sure it cycled properly and all was good. We started with 4 balloon mollies, 1 red-tailed shark, 3 clown loaches, 2 platys, 2 goldenpanchax, 1 bristle nose, 1 feather fin catfish and a bolivian butterfly. We have a really great fish shop that have given us great advise. Everyone gets on well, there are plenty of hiding places and we have live plants n driftwood (all been boiled etc....). We feed them a mix of brine shrimp, blood worms, algae tablets, flakes with sinking tidbits, and mushy peas & zucchini. All our levels have been great, we do weekly water changes and add stress coat plus a bit of salt. we've had low pH so occasionally we put in the increaser.

First we noticed the clown loaches looking a it off colour, they had a film and gunk all on there eyes and they kept bumping into things. We asked at the shop and they gave us tri-sulphate. We followed into the letter.... And the the trouble started. The loaches were doing better, but the featherfin and the red tail shark were off. Anyway long story short, our ammonia rose to 4ppm 2 weeks ago so we started daily water changes - about 40-50% but the ammonia is only slowly going down and the pH wasnt even on the ph chart!!

We lost all the loaches, the featherfin and a Molly. The Bolivian butterfly isn't doing well either. The red tail shark looked like it came down with white spot. We started treating with ick away and then took our shark into the shop. On closer inspection it is a bacterial Infection so gave a salt bath yesterday. He is much the same today.

We don't want to lose anymore fish!! Our latest readings were 1.5ppm ammonia, pH not registering again (even though we upped it with the increaser yesterday). We're using ick away still and have gone to water changes every other day to try and let everything settle.

Has anyone had anything similar? Does anyone know if we should be doing anything different.

 

[Katherine1119]

Well it sounds like your doing things right, you might have used 2 medications that caused a reaction that changed the ph, you need to find a way to nuetralize the ph, the ammonia is strange though was it a really sudden spike or did you maybe not notice it getting bad? I would stop adding any medications to the tank for the time being
EDIT: is the ph high or low?

 

[Andrew McFadden]

Most medications will kill your bacteria and its recommended to turn off filters while dosing

 

[Kazza9]

Thanks guys. We took the carbon out of the filter whilst medicating. Do we need to stop it completely? The only meds we are using now is ick away now.

The pH is 6.0 or less, it's so pale yellow its not registering. We put pH increaser in it again, but its barely at 6.1. I know that while the ammonia is high it is better for the fish to have a lower pH, but its just not increasing. Our fish shop also did some water testing and had the same results so we are definitely doing the test right.

This whole thing is so frustrating, our featherfin was so charismatic and it was horrid to see him suffer.

 

[Kazza9]

Oh forgot to say. We stupidly didn't test for ammonia whilst medicating, so we didn't notice it creep up. We only medicated with tri-sulphate for a week though, but that is when the ammonia spiked.

 

[Andrew McFadden]

When you took the carbon out did you keep it in water?

 

[Katherine1119]

Ok so I would make a baking soda and tank water mixture, about 1/4 a teaspoon for every 10 gallons of water and add that to the tank,( don't just add the soda it won't disperse as well) it should raise your ph

 

[Andrew McFadden]

I'm a little confused on what to say. If you kept the carbon in water it should have kept the bacteria. So I would add that back to the tank and pray that it stayed good. But either way a crab in cycle is is all you can do or re home all the fish back to a lfs and start over. If your ph out of the tap is higher then water changes should take care of that and raise it back up slowly. But you need to get the ammonia down right away so I'd be doing a 50% water change now and then test shown in an hour. If its still high do it again.

 

[fort384]

What was the pH before you starting adding pH increaser? The problem with adjusting pH is eventually you run out of buffering capacity and this happens - the pH crashes through the floor. Generally, I never recommend anyone who is keeping the type of fish you are keeping to adjust the pH - almost any tapwater would be in a suitable range to house these fish, so long as they are acclimated properly. While I rarely recommend adjusting pH, if it is to be done, it best done using more natural methods, like adding crushed coral skeleton to the tank. This will naturally add a lot of buffering capacity and keep the water more stable. I recommend a series of very large water changes here while the ammonia is readable and your pH is through the floor. What is the pH of your tap testing at - both right when it comes out of the tap, and again after tap water has sat for a couple of hours and had the chance to off gas?

 

[blert]

Tri-sulfate... Isn't that an antibiotic? Neomycin, no?
I think you may have nuked you bio-filter.

First thing I would do is stop using the pH increaser, the stuff causes nothing but instability issues. You want the pH stable, not bouncing all over the place.

The next thing I would do is many water changes. Do 50% now, wait an hour and do another 50%. Wait an hour and test ammonia, nitrite and pH. If ammonia is still high wait another hour and do it again.
Do this in the morning and then again at night.
Adjust frequency of water changes based on your tests but I would do at least one a day until the pH comes back up.
Repeat daily.

Test your source water's pH by letting a cup gas out for 24 hours. If you have a spare air pump drop in a line and let it bubble for 24 hours, if you don't have one give the water a good stir every so often. Once you know this you will be better informed on how to tackle the pH issue.

If your source water pH comes out fine the many large water changes will bring it back up.

It's going to be a lot of work for you as the tank is quite overstocked (IMO). Decrease feeding to a small amount every other day until the tank has stabilized.

What was your past maintenance schedule?

 

[Kazza9]

Thanks everyone you've been really helpful. We only have 7 small fish left in a 90 L tank, I don't think that is overstocked??? Or am I kidding myself???
Our plan was to get a bigger tank anyway when the loaches grew, but sadly don't have that worry anymore


We have been doing 50% water changes daily but its not bringing the pH up. Our tap water is 7.8 but I will let it sit for 24hrs like advised and re-test it then. Will stop the pH increaser, leave it for a while and look into alternative methods.

We didn't keep the carbon in water, and I think you were right in saying we've nuked all the good stuff. Back to square one with cycling the tank.

The shark is perking up a bit, he is still covered in white stuff but not as bad since the salt bath and the ick away.

They say timing is everything, and we are moving house next week!! Great!! Time to stress out already stressed out fish!!

 

[Andrew McFadden]

Thanks everyone you've been really helpful. We only have 7 small fish left in a 90 L tank, I don't think that is overstocked??? Or am I kidding myself???
Our plan was to get a bigger tank anyway when the loaches grew, but sadly don't have that worry anymore

We have been doing 50% water changes daily but its not bringing the pH up. Our tap water is 7.8 but I will let it sit for 24hrs like advised and re-test it then. Will stop the pH increaser, leave it for a while and look into alternative methods.

We didn't keep the carbon in water, and I think you were right in saying we've nuked all the good stuff. Back to square one with cycling the tank.

The shark is perking up a bit, he is still covered in white stuff but not as bad since the salt bath and the ick away.

They say timing is everything, and we are moving house next week!! Great!! Time to stress out already stressed out fish!!

I hope things start turning around for you. Since you'll be moving it may be best to just re home the fish to be cared for at an lfs. After the move start all over. The only reason I say this is because your right that's a lot of stress and they are going threw a lot already.

 

[Candiceg]

I wouldn't worry about the ph right now. Worry only about getting ammonia down. Honestly I'm surprised your fish are still alive. Ammonia over .25 can be lethal. Keep up water changes I would do 75% changes twice a day if needed until ammonia is at .25 or less. Ask your fish store if you can have or buy some used wet filter pads/media that will help you gain your bacteria back. Good luck maybe they could house your fish for you while you get the water under control. Good luck

 

[Kazza9]

Thanks again everyone.

Just an update, we've had no more casualties thankfully. The shark is now scared of us again after his salt bath - but he does seem to be a lot better. Not on the brink of death and even swimming around when we're not looking!!

We've done big water changes, daily water changes, and now we are on every 3 days. The pH is now registering at 6.8 but the ammonia is still high. Our shop said that when the pH is low the ammonia can't convert in to nitrate, so we're just keeping an eye on it every day. With all the water changes I can't understand why its still high. We even got a new testing kit just in case it was us!!

We haven't got the opportunity to rehouse fish with the lfs, we move In 2 days so I hope they all survive. We have buckets and towels at the ready....

Have a nice Christmas everyone, and thanks for your advice.

Kaz

 

[blert]

...
With all the water changes I can't understand why its still high.
...

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

 

[Candiceg]

When you move your tanks make sure to keep your filter media wet with tank water so you don't lose any bacteria