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Joey2619

Aquarium Advice Activist
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Long Island, New York
Hello, after awhile of thinking my tank was running well, some problems decide to arise. I have two afflicted neon tetras. One has, and this was just noticed, a slight curvature of the spine, floating/swimming kinda around the other neons, but higher in the tank, with his body twitching a little, i also notice that yu can see his gills from under his body. Just noticed this ten minutes ago. I am also noticing a indentation on one side of his body near his tail. Body is also dark.

Second neon, while acting fine seems to have a large lump coming directly down from his stomach. I dont know if it may be pregnant, not sure what tetras look like.

I really need help with this first guy here as I feel his life is on the line, I am about to perform a pH, nitrate and ammonia test, will report back.


EDIT: Ammonia came back negative, and the pH was a little low at 6.4 where it should of been at 6.8. Just finished up a water change. BTW, its a 30gallon with a gourami, two pictus, two angels, one leopard danio, and 7 tetras.

Found the questions, I hope this may help some.

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
Both tetras, one has two lumpy growths inside of is body in the stomach area, the other is floating/swimming aimlessly, sometimes crashing into the glass, and is breathing hard, along with that looks like enflamed gills, fins are not shreaded or anything. Body is darker than the other neons.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
pH- 6.6, Ammonia - 0ppm, dont have a kit for nirtrites and nitirated, looking for a quality thermometer

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
30 gallons, approximately a year.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.
AquaClear 300

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
13 fish

2 Angelfish - One approximately 3.5inch body, the other 2inches.
1 Pearl (Kisser) Gourami - 4 inches.
7 Neon Tetras (2 afflicted) - all about an inch long.
1 Leopard Danio - 1.5inches.
2 Pictus Catfish - One 4 inches, the other 3inches.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
Approximately a week and a half apart, did one today after noticing the tetras, about a 50% removal with vaccum.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
Have had the fish for a year, acclimated for an hour in bag.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
Nothing new.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?
TetraMin Tropical Flakes, no diet change
 
It sounds like it may be neon tetra disease. Did you test your water right after the water change? If so you need to wait at least 2 hours before testing to get accurate results. Can you QT the afflicted fish? Neon tetra disease can affect angels. AFAIK there is no cure for neon tetra disease. Still best to get them out of the tank to protect the other fish.

Take a look at this link and scroll down to neon tetra disease and see if this matches your fish.

Another link that describes many of the symptoms of this disease can be found here .
 
Well he is still alive and this has been 7 hours later. He seems to slightly have a little of his color back, the only part of him with a color change is his red streak which has a little brown streak on top. The guy wants to live, so Im going to try whatever I need to take care of him, but I need ideas. I just put some food in and he isnt eating. Can I try anything else?


Also to note: He isnt running into the glass no more, he seems to have regained some control, and is staying in the general area of the school. Im going to put him in a quarantine tank in a couple hours, but I wonder if he is getting a little better from being in the tank with the others, because if he is in the quarantine tank, he may become stressed. I may just leave him in until I come from from work tonight.
 
Wow, the first time I've read about Neon Tetra Disease. Heard of it, but never read about it. Sounds like what your fish have, and it sounds like it's best to separate the sick ones from the rest of the tank.

Probably best to move both of the fish you described - the lumpy one and the erratic one.

It's caused by a protozoan, and it sounds like a "cure" has not been proven. Maybe it's a mis-diagnosis though, and other treatments would help. Might as well treat the 2 fish in the QT/hospital tank and see if it helps - or euthanize.

From the second link Zagz posted:
Q: Does Erythromycin cure this disease? How about Nalidixic Acid, or Protozin?
A: There is no known cure for Neon Tetra disease. Erythromycin is primarily effective against gram-positive bacteria, and no evidence exists that it has any effect on Neon Tetra disease. Some owners have reported success in alleviating symptoms of the disease by using Nalidixic Acid, which is generally used to treat gram-negative organisms. However, this has not been substantiated in scientific studies. Protozoan drugs such as Protozin, have also been reported to have relieved symptoms of the disease. However, as with other treatments, an actual cure has not been scientifically documented.
Many of the reported cures are the result of misdiagnosis. Certain bacterial infections mimic the symptoms of Neon Tetra disease. Those diseases often respond to medication, thus giving rise to the incorrect belief that there is a cure for Neon Tetra disease.


Good luck!
 
So what medications should I use to attempt to cure this, if say it werent NTD? I should probably treat the whole tank too right?


EDIT: This fish isnt eating, is there anything I can do to get it to eat? Also looks like he has a little black growth on the top of his head over his left eye, and maybe a slight case of popeye.

I also noticed another tetra with a little white on his eyes, and a little messed up dorsal fin, Im debating whether to put all the tetras in a tank and treat them all. I need quite a bit of help here.

I just put up my hospital tank, cycling that through maybe put the fish in on sat or sunday. My gourami (see picture) has like 3/4 of his rear tail missing, its been like that for awhile and hasnt gotten worse, Id also like to treat him. And my leopard danio has a cottony black growth on his nose.

Also, even after 50% water changes, my water is still cloudy, I cant seem to get it to clear up, should I do frequent water changes?
 

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If it's not NTD, then it might be bacterial or parasitic. From some of the sites, it sounds like cases of "false NTD" are usually bacterial infections - so I suppose you could use the Maracyn and Maracyn Two antibiotics. They can be used at the same time.

Problem with antibiotics/anti-bacterials is that they can kill the bacteria of your biological filter - so there may be a "mini-cycle". Maybe it's better to put the affected neons (or just all of the neons, might as well) in the hospital tank and treat them with antibiotics/anti-bacterials. If that doesn't help them, then that would strengthen the argument for NTD and there wouldn't be any benefit to treating the whole tank and throwing it into a mini-cycle.

As this site notes:
occasionally in advanced stages ends in a secondary bacterial infection that causes bloating and pop-eye. If the NTD is advanced, then it's best to move them out of the big tank so the other fish don't get the disease too - which is highly contagious, especially if the two fish die overnight and the other fish nip at them before you can get the dead ones out.
There isn't much you can do about the non-eating. They just don't eat because they feel like cr*p.

About your Gourami: Not sure if that's bacterial fin rot, or if it's just a damaged fin from being nipped at in the past. If it hasn't changed in a while, then it's probably not fin rot. Also, I think fin rot is usually more 'shredded' in appearance. I think "Melafix" is good for helping re-growth, but I'm not sure - so maybe do some research first and make sure it's okay for the gourami species. I'd assume you could add that to the main tank while the neons are in the hospital.

Then there's the leopard danio: Cottony growths are usually fungus. There are several anti-fungals on the market, but I have no idea which ones are good/bad. The anti-fungals shouldn't affect the biological filter, so I suppose it's debatable whether to treat the danio in the main tank or in the hospital tank with the neons.

This site is pretty good and has many pictures, and has many links to other fish disease resources at the bottom of the page.

Anyone else?

Good luck!
 
I also have a question about the neon, on his left side, there is an indention where it looks like he was clamped by something. I cant really explain it. And what medication should I use with the danio? Id like to take care of the LFS run at one time. Thanks for the info so far guys!

BTW: That neon wants to live, he is still going even two days later.
 
Alright well, I came home from work and the tetra was dead on the filter, so I buried him in the backyard. Im going to go purchase mela and primafix, but Id also like to know which kind of anti-fungal medication Id need for that danio.
 
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