i have no clue what's causing all these deaths in my tank recently. first of all, the specs: 75 gallon 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 0.25 nitrates 7.0 - 8.5 pH (fluctuation because of CO2?) 2 full grown angels (4 1/2") 7 juvenile discus (2 - 3", 5 - 1.5-2") 3 emerald corries (1 1/2") 1 juvenile skunk corry (3/4") 2 juvenile panda corries (1/2") 3 full grown rainbowfish (3") 2 full grown bosemi rainbows (3") 6 olive nerite snails (1/4-1/3") 2 full grown golden killies (3") 4 juvenile golden killies (1") 2 baby gardeni killies (1/2") 1 juvenile american flagfish (1/2") 4 juvenile SAEs (1") i started the tank about a month back. to speed the cycle, i used fritz's turbo start (shipped overnight cold), used some gravel from an established tank, and used a sponge filter from the same established tank. i've lost the following within a week-and-a-half: 2 panda corries 1 spotted corry 5 juvenile discus 4 juvenile angelfish 2 juvenile american flagfish 1 juvenile SAE the tank is heavily planted, primarily with stalk plants to control algae. i feed CO2 through a compressed canister. i'm feeding around 100 bubbles per minutes. i noticed a brown algae boost this week. it started to coat everything. i tested the phosphates which came out to around 0, but after a few minutes of testing the contents of the vial became cloudy; i don't know what that means. the fish look a little stressed. my 2 full grown surviving angelfish seem to be producing some body slime, and two discus have become very dark. i'm going to do a PWC now and see what happens, but does anyone have any clue as to why this is happening?
MASSIVE fish deaths
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Floyd R Turbo
Aquarium Advice Addict
I guess I would start with a few questions. Which brand of test kit are you using, and is it out of date or brand new?
Your Nitrates are really low. Most kits don't read 0.25 ppm, you have 5, 10, 20, etc. That would lead me to believe that you may not have your cycle completed, or you may have a faulty test kit.
As for the Phosphate test kit, this one I can discuss with some experience. I used the Hagen kit until I got tired of trying to figure out which shade of blue I was looking at. I switched to the API kit which is a little better, and uses only 2 reagents. After the 3 minutes are up, you have to read it right away, because within a few more minutes, goes cloudy. Not sure why, but you're most likely not doing the test wrong.
You may have transferred over some kind of bacteria by using the sponge & gravel that may have not been affecting the prior tank, but have somehow taken hold in the new tank. Maybe you can provide some more information about how they died, like bloating, fin rot, fungus, etc? Also, how much time passed in the tank after they were put in it would help, as well as what the conditions were in the tank they came from (assuming they came from one of your other tanks?)
You probably know more about Discus than I do having kept them. All I know is that they are very sensitive to any kind of change. The fact that all the other fish are croaking mean there's more going on.
Have you ever used CO2 before? Fluctation in the CO2 levels can cause a lot of stress on certain fish. 100 bubbles/minute seems like a lot from other posts I've read in the past, you may want to check that out. Again, I don't have any experience in CO2.
Also, make sure to test your tap water straight from the tap, and them let some sit for 24 hours and test again to see what your tap water conditions are. That might explain a few things. I have 9.0 pH tap that stays there but drops in the tank to 7.6 within 48 hours.
Your Nitrates are really low. Most kits don't read 0.25 ppm, you have 5, 10, 20, etc. That would lead me to believe that you may not have your cycle completed, or you may have a faulty test kit.
As for the Phosphate test kit, this one I can discuss with some experience. I used the Hagen kit until I got tired of trying to figure out which shade of blue I was looking at. I switched to the API kit which is a little better, and uses only 2 reagents. After the 3 minutes are up, you have to read it right away, because within a few more minutes, goes cloudy. Not sure why, but you're most likely not doing the test wrong.
You may have transferred over some kind of bacteria by using the sponge & gravel that may have not been affecting the prior tank, but have somehow taken hold in the new tank. Maybe you can provide some more information about how they died, like bloating, fin rot, fungus, etc? Also, how much time passed in the tank after they were put in it would help, as well as what the conditions were in the tank they came from (assuming they came from one of your other tanks?)
You probably know more about Discus than I do having kept them. All I know is that they are very sensitive to any kind of change. The fact that all the other fish are croaking mean there's more going on.
Have you ever used CO2 before? Fluctation in the CO2 levels can cause a lot of stress on certain fish. 100 bubbles/minute seems like a lot from other posts I've read in the past, you may want to check that out. Again, I don't have any experience in CO2.
Also, make sure to test your tap water straight from the tap, and them let some sit for 24 hours and test again to see what your tap water conditions are. That might explain a few things. I have 9.0 pH tap that stays there but drops in the tank to 7.6 within 48 hours.
Yea... I don't think the tank was cycled properly amd if it was, it wasn't ready for that large a bioload for sure. That's a ton of fish to put into a tank that's less than a month old. Also, cold or not, the bacteria in a bottle products are usually more hype than substance. Sorry for the losses. Definitely check your test kit. The pH swimgs can't be helping and the O2 saturation is probably very low.
i changed a 3rd of the water out earlier today.
alright, a few corrections first.
i misread the nitrates. the nitrates are at 10ppm.
as for the phosphates, i read them at 0.25ppm before the vile became cloudy.
i used the tetra test kit for the ammonia, the API products for the nitrates and nitrites.
the fritz stuff is pretty highly rated, so i have faith in it. i watched the parameters after i added the stuff so i know it had an effect.
i am sure that the tank cycled properly. i never had issues with ammonia and the nitrites peaked at 0.50ppm before coming down to 0. and even then, i did the PWCs and dosed Amquel+.
i'll dial down the CO2 to a trickle. i don't see the fish gasping for air though.
as for how they are dying, well they're just dying. i don't see any signs of diseases. for example, the juvenile angelfish were appeared perfectly healthy; they were very active and had huge appetites. the next thing i know, they're lying on the bottom of the tank.
any other suggestions?
alright, a few corrections first.
i misread the nitrates. the nitrates are at 10ppm.
as for the phosphates, i read them at 0.25ppm before the vile became cloudy.
i used the tetra test kit for the ammonia, the API products for the nitrates and nitrites.
the fritz stuff is pretty highly rated, so i have faith in it. i watched the parameters after i added the stuff so i know it had an effect.
i am sure that the tank cycled properly. i never had issues with ammonia and the nitrites peaked at 0.50ppm before coming down to 0. and even then, i did the PWCs and dosed Amquel+.
i'll dial down the CO2 to a trickle. i don't see the fish gasping for air though.
as for how they are dying, well they're just dying. i don't see any signs of diseases. for example, the juvenile angelfish were appeared perfectly healthy; they were very active and had huge appetites. the next thing i know, they're lying on the bottom of the tank.
any other suggestions?
Floyd R Turbo
Aquarium Advice Addict
A few questions that might help:
Have you ever done CO2 before?
What kind of setup were all these fish in prior to this setup?
Did you just buy all these fish and put them in all at once, or did you combine fish from tanks you already had?
What is your tap water pH and tap water after 24 hours pH?
You Ammonia / Nitrite results seem similar to what I did, I got a bag of dirty water from an LFS and the Nitrites never got above 0.25ppm. So your cycle sounds like it's not the problem to me. It might be stress depending on answers to the above questions. Also consider using Prime instead of Amquel or anything else for that matter. You only REALLY need de-chlorinator and stress coat is unnecessary, I've heard form some people that their fish freak out after it is administered. Plus you only use 1 capful of Prime for every 50 gallons of water, so it lasts forever.
I might consider doing smaller, more frequent water changes every couple days versus large PWCs once a week to keep the pH or other chemical flucuation down, especially with the Discus, and especially depending on your tap water conditions. You have to know your tap water.
Have you ever done CO2 before?
What kind of setup were all these fish in prior to this setup?
Did you just buy all these fish and put them in all at once, or did you combine fish from tanks you already had?
What is your tap water pH and tap water after 24 hours pH?
You Ammonia / Nitrite results seem similar to what I did, I got a bag of dirty water from an LFS and the Nitrites never got above 0.25ppm. So your cycle sounds like it's not the problem to me. It might be stress depending on answers to the above questions. Also consider using Prime instead of Amquel or anything else for that matter. You only REALLY need de-chlorinator and stress coat is unnecessary, I've heard form some people that their fish freak out after it is administered. Plus you only use 1 capful of Prime for every 50 gallons of water, so it lasts forever.
I might consider doing smaller, more frequent water changes every couple days versus large PWCs once a week to keep the pH or other chemical flucuation down, especially with the Discus, and especially depending on your tap water conditions. You have to know your tap water.
I just read an article by Jack Wattley in the October issue of TFH and he explained in his response to a question regarding discus and stated that there are very few plants that will thrive in a discus environment for starters, the PH has to be in the low to mid 6's and the tank temp 82 to 84 degrees, if that isn't enough he recommends 30 to 50% water changes 3 times a week. If I'm reading everything correctly the tank shouldn't of had any discus in it because the conditions needed for these fish aren't there. While researching a DIY de-nitrater cylinder for my fowlr it was mentioned that the key to turning nitrates into harmless nitrogen the water containing the nitrates must be starved of oxygen, and if the process isn't done correctly it will turn into another toxic compound that will wipe out your tank. This sounds really close to what you were doing with the amount of CO2 you putting into the tank. IMO I would completely shut off the CO2 and see what happens. The other thing is in regard to the discus, if you want to keep discus you are going to have to make great sacrifices and adjust your tank levels to accommodate them.
taylorodw
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I wouldn't be surprised if pH swings were, if not the sole culprit, the biggest factor here.
The pH was as high as 8.5? For fish like Discus and Angels, that's literally 10-100 times more basic than their natural habitat. Imagine any other factor in your tank, and increasing it by only 10x... the temperature? The nitrate? Now imagine that 100x... especially if these fish are wild caught, even a stable pH at that level could result in death. But a pH fluctuation of that magnitude is even crazier.
Check it out:
2 panda corries
1 spotted corry
5 juvenile discus
4 juvenile angelfish
All of these fish prefer pH below 7... Discus and Angelfish in particular really thrive at closer to 6.
2 juvenile american flagfish
1 juvenile SAE
These fish don't have such a need for low pH, but the fact that the pH is changing so drastically is all bad.
The pH was as high as 8.5? For fish like Discus and Angels, that's literally 10-100 times more basic than their natural habitat. Imagine any other factor in your tank, and increasing it by only 10x... the temperature? The nitrate? Now imagine that 100x... especially if these fish are wild caught, even a stable pH at that level could result in death. But a pH fluctuation of that magnitude is even crazier.
Check it out:
2 panda corries
1 spotted corry
5 juvenile discus
4 juvenile angelfish
All of these fish prefer pH below 7... Discus and Angelfish in particular really thrive at closer to 6.
2 juvenile american flagfish
1 juvenile SAE
These fish don't have such a need for low pH, but the fact that the pH is changing so drastically is all bad.
Agreed, I had discus a long time ago and kept the tank between 6 and 6.5 any lower or higher and the fish became stressed. This is why I didn't go with discus when i got back into the hobby because your tankmate choices are very limited. IMO it's a combination of things in tank that is very young.
alright, with the CO2, I did not have too much experience with that. i did the 100 bubbles per min off of the bubble counter because of the heavy planting.
second, i had this fish for ages, and they did just fine. i put them into two tanks. one tank had the corries and rainbowfish, while the other had the angels, discus, and killies.
from everything i've read, fish tend to acclimate to different water parameters well. i read many sources stating that you don't have to have low pH for Discus and Angelfish. besides, these fish aren't wild-caught, they were tank raised. either way, they were well acclimated to the hard Socal water.
i'll start with the smaller water changes, and i'll consider Prime after i finish the Amquel+.
i still don't know why this happened so suddenly. started dosing the CO2 from day one, and everyone was perfectly healthy until recently.
hmmm... i'm wondering if the latest addition of some of the newer plants or the panda corries had something to do with this. i added some plants, and moved other plants around and added 4 small panda corries.
second, i had this fish for ages, and they did just fine. i put them into two tanks. one tank had the corries and rainbowfish, while the other had the angels, discus, and killies.
from everything i've read, fish tend to acclimate to different water parameters well. i read many sources stating that you don't have to have low pH for Discus and Angelfish. besides, these fish aren't wild-caught, they were tank raised. either way, they were well acclimated to the hard Socal water.
i'll start with the smaller water changes, and i'll consider Prime after i finish the Amquel+.
i still don't know why this happened so suddenly. started dosing the CO2 from day one, and everyone was perfectly healthy until recently.
hmmm... i'm wondering if the latest addition of some of the newer plants or the panda corries had something to do with this. i added some plants, and moved other plants around and added 4 small panda corries.
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