My black moor is sick (again)

[cnicole516]

Hello, so I have a two year old black moor who had what looked like ich about a month ago. I treated the tank with malachite green/formalin for 10 days and the spot went away. Now, my black moor has white spots on him that are so small I can hardly see them except from the side. It almost looks like the tiny spot is hanging off his scales. He does have white stringy poop ( he has had this going on for awhile now) bit otherwise acts completely normal. Parameters are perfect and he has proper filtration and aeration. Any suggestions for diagnosis or treatment? I would post a picture but again it's impossible to catch clearly in a photo

 

[Delapool]

Not scale damage from the ich? Is it complexly gone?

 

[cnicole516]

It definitely doesn't look like there is any scale damage. I looked again at him and whatever was on him is not there anymore, but he still has stringy poop. Could that alone be a sign of parasite?

 

[Delapool]

Hmm it's a strange one. I can't think of anything off hand there.

Possibly internal parasites, you could try a more varied diet (replace fish food, suitable vegetable greens, etc) and see if that helps. Has he lost weight or sluggish or anything else?

 

[cnicole516]

I feed him a pretty varied diet already (peas, frozen brine shrimp, variety of pellets, oranges). He is not acting any differently, no bloating or anything like that. Could it just be from stress? He has a tank mate and usually freaks out during feeding time. He chases the other one away from the food and gets pretty protective of it. I'm wondering if that has something to do with it

 

[Delapool]

Hmm, well I'm not an expert in internal parasites, really need someone with more experience with them here. Thoughts below.

I have noted that it can also reflect low quality foods, foods that irritate or some other stress like something in the water conditions. Not that I'm saying your food is old, just listing. Like flashing is not always parasites.

I think if there was something to go with it like hanging off in the corner, sunken belly, not looking well or eating then I'd investigate something like medicated fish good.

The other thing I would try is just dropping back to a flake or one food and seeing if any change. Just to see.

 

[jlk]

Can you please post your exact parameters along with food specifics (brands/types)? How often do you feed veggies? Water change schedule?

Some odd waste in your case simply sounds like a dietary and/or stress issue. It may to be the result of inappropriate foods or a lack of greens or it may just be a reaction to a lengthy course course of meds that are not the greatest for fancies. Some more information will help!

 

[Delapool]

While waiting for the OP may I ask what is white, stringy poop - is it off the intestine or something else?

 

[jlk]

While waiting for the OP may I ask what is white, stringy poop - is it off the intestine or something else?

It can be something that is simply 'off' such as a dietary issue, following a lengthy fast, stress or unhealthy water. It can follow during and/or after a course of meds (particularly antibiotics). The white or pale stringy waste is the result of the intestinal cells, bacteria and mucous being sloughed off and excreted. Think of it as an 'upset tummy'. Many of the companies that sell med foods strongly suggest using their 'startup' type foods that are heavy on the prebiotics and probiotics before and after using a med food to limit intestinal upset. Probiotics in general are common additives in the top of the line fish foods as well.

It's important to distinguish this from an actual issue such as an parasite infestation, an intestinal bacterial infection, an intestinal issue such as a blockage or another issue that may be limiting normal waste passage (such as a female full of eggs or fry or a tumor). These issues are almost always accompanied by other apparent symptoms that distinguish themselves from an 'upset' tummy.

It's also important to point out that an 'upset tummy' indicates something amiss that should be investigated and rectified (if possible) because long term health issues such as reduced immunity, vitamin deficiencies, infection and poor overall health can result from constant intestinal distress. A day or two of strange waste may be nothing but a week or longer is an issue that needs attention on some (or multiple) levels. Hope this makes some sense!

 

[Delapool]

Yes, many thanks this is great info and much appreciated on the reply. My goodness, fish keeping seems so easy but there is a heck of a lot to learn

 

[cnicole516]

Hi everyone, I am sorry I have not replied.
My parameters are usually spot on (usually 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, between 10-30 nitrate)
I do a weekly water change of about 70%.

I tried a round of marineland all in one that did not get rid of the spot I found on his side (he is also missing a scale now) and sent my biological filter nuts. So I stopped after 4 days and replaced carbon.
Today I gave him an epsom salt bath and put some melafix in the tank (do I need to remove carbon for melafix? My carbon is several months old, and I am not going to upset the system again by removing the pads)

Here is a picture of the white spot I found (which is not spreading).
He is still not acting different and the poop is still stringy (off and on).

Thank you so much for the help!

Also - I feed veggies about twice a week, brine shrimp once a week.
Then I feed a goldfish specific sinking pellet food.

 

[jlk]

Is the spot near his gill what you are referring to? Is it a fleshy bump that protrudes or simply a missing scale (can not tell from the picture)?

 

[cnicole516]

It's the little white spot about a centimeter away from his gill. It's not a missing scale but a small little ball of white stuff. It's gone down in size since then.

 

[cnicole516]

Update: the black moor and his tank mate (also telescope eyes) have swollen eyes. Not Popeyes, but like the areas behind their eyes are bloated and look like blisters. The pupils aren't cloudy or anything like that. Ammonia has been less than 0.25 for a few days after stopping the last medication. Water changes don't help because my tap has 0.25 in it anyways. They still aren't acting weird. I've been giving them pellets soaked in maracyn II in case there is a bacterial infection.

 

[Delapool]

Did the melafix make any difference (on mine it says to remove carbon FYI)?

I wondered if your carbon is part of a filter cartridge or something so changing can remove bb?

 

[cnicole516]

No it didn't really. The spot is now gone but the eyes are still swollen. It's the oddest thing...

I did a water change to see if something in the water was doing it to them. So far no change. Still soaking pellets in meds.

Yes the carbon is part of a cartridge. I removed them for the first medication I tried and it cause a small spike in ammonia. Could that be causing their eyes to swell? It's going down slowly now (the ammonia level) I'll try to get a pic soon

 

[cnicole516]

Here is a good picture. The fluid is built up right behind the eye.

 

[cnicole516]

I was reading something about gas bubble disease.. Could this be that? I have a lid on the tank that only has a small feeding hole...

 

[Delapool]

No it didn't really. The spot is now gone but the eyes are still swollen. It's the oddest thing...

I did a water change to see if something in the water was doing it to them. So far no change. Still soaking pellets in meds.

Yes the carbon is part of a cartridge. I removed them for the first medication I tried and it cause a small spike in ammonia. Could that be causing their eyes to swell? It's going down slowly now (the ammonia level) I'll try to get a pic soon

Losing phone connection so quickly copied a link below. Really need the expert in jlk but yes, I'm wondering if the water quality slid a bit. Also you could look into if the fish food is good / in date (just in case).

I don't like cartridges like that, I have an internal filter that is the same and I much prefer being able to pick my own filter media to what I want (like canisters). If possible, I would look into another filter. The carbon I find useful so you could keep that one and running two gives more options.


http://www.buzzle.com/articles/pop-eye-fish-disease.html

 

[cnicole516]

Thank you for the article. I'm going to take the lid off and turn off the light. We'll see I guess.