New Goldfish Tank- Need Advice

[brianwestchest]

My girls wanted goldfish as a hobby. So, we picked up a 10 gallon tank and (3) common goldfish. We've had them for about three months and no problems so far.

About a month ago, we got a 39 gallon tank from a friend. The tank came fully stocked with fish, the filter, heater, gravel, everything. The set up is:

• 39 gallon tank
• AquaClear 50 filter with BioMax, Carbon and Sponge stages
• Heater
• (4) Oranda Goldfish (he called them Lionheads. But, they look like Orandas from the research I did on the internet)
• (7) Cory Catfish
• (1) Pleco

Everything was running fine and dandy for a couple of weeks. We didn't lose any fish. I was doing regular water changes (about weekly). And, I thought "This isn't so hard". Then, about two weeks ago, we noticed a red spot on one of the Orandas. Then another one got a red spot. We thought maybe they were brushing up against the rock in the tank because the previous owner told us one had gotten a sore like that before. After a few days we noticed the spot was growing and starting to look like an ulcer. I made a trip to the local fish store where they recommended Quick Cure and Aquarium salt. I treated for three days with Quick Cure. On the fourth day, one of the Orandas died. It was the one that had the smaller ulcer, barely noticeable. The ulcer on the other fish stopped growing and began turning white. We thought that meant it was healing. Yesterday, we found that fish dead.

I know I should have cycled the tank before adding fish. But, since we got the whole setup all at once, I didn't have much choice. Since we used the same gravel, filter media, etc and even some of the original aquarium water, we thought we'd be OK and that there'd be enough beneficial bacteria already in the tank.

Oh, I've been using StressCoat to dechlorinate the water.

One thing I found a little weird was that my understanding is goldfish are cold water fish. But, the guy who sold us the setup was keeping their tank around 76º which is where I've been keeping it.

The other fish in the tank seem to be doing fine. I'd like to replace at least one of the fancy goldfish. But, I want to make sure I'm doing everything right before I introduce any more fish into the environment.

Based on my reading of the introductory material here, I'm thinking I should buy a water test kit and start monitoring the ammonia and nitrite levels in the tank.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[aqua_chem]

First off, welcome to Aquarium Advice!

I'm going to move this topic to our FW Sick Fish forum. You should be able to get more help there.


Without pictures of the ulcers or water parameters, it's a bit difficult to give much in the way of specific information. That being said, on of your first moves if you suspect something is up in your tank is an immediate large water change. If you do have toxins building it, this will help to remedy it.


It should also be noted that goldfish can grow quite large and have large bioloads. I believe the rule of thumb for them is 20 gallons for the first fish and 10g per additional fish. Someone else will have to chime in with a good temperature for goldies.

 

[blert]

Welcome to AA!

76 is on the high end of their range (65-78f) but it should be fine. I think the problems you are having are due to water quality issues. You see, both of those tanks are severely overstocked. Comet Goldfish get up to around 14 inches and are more suited to a pond then an aquarium. Fancy Goldfish can get up to about 8 inches and are fine for an aquarium at twenty gallons for the first fish and an additional ten gallons for each additional fish. Your 39 gallons is good for three Fancy Goldfish and no other fish, you could probably keep four if you are very diligent about your maintenance routine. Goldfish produce a lot of waste and get large, this is why their requirements are the way they are.

Depending on the type of Pleco you have there... They also get very large and produce a ton of waste. They need very large tanks also.

 

[Coursair]

Water test kit is a very good idea.
I would NOT add more fish.

I have to second that you are overstocked.

If you really want the Orandas I'd look at 55-75g tanks for long term. The Comets will do best in a pond or 100g plus tank. 39g is bare minimum for 3. If its a Common Pleco, rehome it. I love Cories, but if the water quality drops, they may as well.
Check their barbels.

The problem I see is that Goldfish need a plant based diet. Too much protein can cause bloat I think ?? Orandas should eat slow sinking pellets or pre-soaked flakes. Algae wafers, zucchini, skinned frozen/defrosted peas, etc are part of the diet.

Cories are meat eaters. They need sinking food that is based on their needs. Shrimp pellets, frozen worms or brine shrimp, catfish wafers, live food, etc...
Also the warmer water has LESS dissolved oxygen.
The Cories like it at 76f but normally I don't heat GF.

 

[jlk]

I agree with what is stated so far. You need a test kit first of all then you need to address your stocking issues. The commons grow up to 18inches & realistically are pond fish. I would rehome them to a pond asap before they start suffering the effects of stunting.

The 39g should really only have three fancies with no other fish. You may get away with four fancies if you follow a hefty water change schedule (50+% atleast 2x a week) with heavy filtration (500-800gph). The cories & the pleco do not belong with fancy goldfish- both will snack on slow fancies and may be a factor in the red spots/ulcers you have seen as well. Either rehome them or get another tank for them where they can be housed appropriately.

The ulcers & sickness you have experienced are due to poor water quality in a heavily overstocked tank with incompatible fish. You will need to address the water quality issues & stocking issues in order to prevent any more illness. You need to decide which fish you would like to keep & act accordingly in order to keep healthy tanks. Please ask if you have any questions!!

 

[brianwestchest]

thanks

Thanks for the words of wisdom. We'll have some decisions to make.

The 10 gallon tank we got for free from a friend. When we went to our local pet store, they told my wife and the girls that they could put goldfish in it. So, we got it all set up and went down to the story to buy the fish. Then, they told us we could only buy comet goldfish for it unless we wanted to buy a heater and go with tropical fish. The girls wanted fish that night. So, we bought the comet goldfish. Right now they are tiny. The largest one is probably 3" long.

In the 40 gallon tank, that's the setup that the guy who sold it to us was running . The fish were getting along fine- fancies, pleco (only about 2-3" long) and the cory catfish. I don't know how often he was doing water changes. After doing more reading I realize that I should have been changing the water much more often especially in the first few weeks and I should have bought a water testing kit. I'm going to get one today.

If we decide to get rid of some fish and stock the tanks properly, how do we go about doing that? Obviously I don't want to kill any of them.

 

[jlk]

You can try your lfs to see if they would rehome some fish. My one lfs happily rehomes fish as well as my two pond stores. Placing an ad on craigslist is another option. You can also try craigslist for an inexpensive tanks if you want to consider upgrading the fancies' tank & keeping the cories & pleco in the 39g. Looks like your jumping into the fish hobby heads first! Dont hesitate to ask questions & get yourself a test kit with a good water conditioner (such as Prime) as soon as possible- you are going to have ALOT of water changes in the meantime until you figure out your tanks! Heres a link on cycling with fish & setting up a fw tank.

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f15/guide-to-starting-a-freshwater-aquarium-186089.html

 

[brianwestchest]

Thanks again...

Unfortunately, getting another tank isn't an option right now. We already have major hobby creep here. This started out as a goldfish or two for my 15 year old. Now, I'm into two tanks. We got a great bargain on the 40 gallon tank with all the fish, filter, heater, stand, etc. which was the only reason we took the plunge to get that tank.

I'm going to head over to the LFS today and get a water testing kit and see what they have to say about re-homing fish if it comes to that.