New Tank, Fully Cycled, Fish all dying of Cotton Fungus

[dbf909]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum. I've been lurking a while and have learned a great deal from you all. Unfortunately I have a very frustrating situation and am trying to find answers. I hope that the experts out here are up to the challenge.

My 18 year old son and I setup a 20g tank in his room (ML Penguin 150 filter, heater, LED hood, fine gravel/sand bottom, artificial plants and decorations). We decided to do a "fishless cycle" after much research (mostly here). We bought the ammonia from Ace HW, Test Kits, etc and proceeded. It took over 3 months to completely cycle the tank - daily monitoring, maintaining all levels, etc. We tried everything - filter media and gravel from another healthy established tank, Fritz-Zyme 7 (twice). Finally we got it to the point that adding 2ml of 10% ammonia (bringing the level up to about 3ppm) would result in 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite in less than 24 hrs. We have a pretty robust Bio filter going.

We did a couple of water changes over a few days to get the nitrate level down to about 5ppm and the next day added 5 small fish to start up a Community tank (1 Platy, 2 Diamond Tetras, 1 small Bala Shark, and 1 Dwarf Gourami). I didn't want the Bala because of how big it might get but my son really wanted it.

We were very careful in acclimating the fish to the water and temp and were also very careful not to get any LFS water from the bag to the tank. Never-the-less, the Gourami died after 2 days without any outward signs of illness. It had been somewhat lethargic from day 1 and I think that it was injured when the LFS guy netted it. They replaced the fish with another one - again very careful acclimation process and it was doing fine - very active.

We fed them mostly flake food twice daily (only 2 mins worth) and some small pellets every other day or so. I monitored the levels daily - ammonia and nitrite always 0 and nitrate climbed slowly to 15 or so pH always at 7.4. After one week, we did a 35% water change to get the nitrate level down. After a couple of hours, we added another Platy and a Silver Molly from another tank we've had setup for 5 months or so. The Molly has been very healthy since day one. Continued daily water tests show healthy clean water and temp maintained at 79-80F.

Then on the 14th day, the Bala Shark suddenly died and we noticed a white cottony fiberous stuff all over the Silver Molly and on the fins and tail of both Platys. I had been out of town for 2 days but my son was home - I don't think the Bala was dead long but it could have been up to 24 hrs. I checked the water and nitrate was up to about 30 (ammonia and nitrite were 0). We did a 50% water change to get the nitrate down and I started doing research on-line.

I concluded that it was Cotton Fungas. It definitely is not ich. I went to the store (the only thing open on Sunday night was WalMart) and got some Jungle Fungus Clear fizz tabs (Methel Blue). This seems to get good reviews on-line as a medication for fungus so I dissolved two tabs in a large glass of tank water and added it to the tank. I removed the filter cartridge with the carbon in it and replaced it with some floss.

Now, since Sunday, both Platys and one of the Tetras has gotten the fungus on them and died. The Molly looks as bad as ever and the remaining Tetra and the Gourami now have the fungus on their fins. In know that it has only been 2 days but this medication has really had no effect at all.

So after 2 weeks with fish after over 3 months of just water, my son and I are watching all of our brand new fish die while looking at a tank full of blue water that I understand causes Cancer wondering what to do next...

Frankly I'm starting to ask myself "Why am I doing this again?".

Once they are all gone (probably tomorrow or the next day), what do I do with the tank full of Carcinogenic water? I can start doing massive water changes to get rid of the medication but I'd rather not have to start over with the Bio. I can start manually adding small amounts of ammonia again to keep the Bio going.

What about whatever is in the water that is making the fish sick? How do I get rid of that?

Seriously 2 weeks and they have all died in a fully cycled tank with clean water and solid temp? I've verified with water testing at 2 different LFSs that the cycle is complete and the Bio is strong. We cannot find any fault with the water maintenance.

How could all of the fish get this fungus and die so quickly? How do I ensure that it will not happen again with new fish?

I definitely don't want to go another 3+ months re-establishing the Bio only to have all of our fish die within weeks again of some disease.

We're just looking for some experience here to guide us as to what to do next. We're not quite ready to give up (too much $ invested) but are very frustrated so far.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oscarchic11]

Im srry to hear its been such a struggle. The fungus probably came on a fish, just didnt show for a bit. It can do that sometimes. As for the water in the tank, you can take all the water out and replace it with new. Over the last 2 days have you kept the old filter moist?? As that is where most of the bacteria will be. Not in the water. I have completely drained tanks to get rid of various problems without it effecting the cycle. That being said, there is also a chance that the fungus may have spores in the filter, so letting the tank sit empty for a couple weeks, dosing every couple days with ammonia, will prob be in the tanks future residents best interest. Then i suggest observing all fish/ plants in the tank with the fish you want to make sure none are sick, and lessin the chance of the fish you get carrying something, and not showing signs. Good luck!!! You could also remove the gravel and give it a good rinse in hot water, straight from the tap, to kill any nazties living in there. When you did water changes did you vac the gravel??

 

[Pam is here]

I'm sorry to hear about your problem. In the last week my pink convict that's about 6" long got hit with the cotton fungus also. I have other fish in the tank. No others show any sign of it. This is what I done. I put the sick fish in a sick tank, treated him with non iodized salt, 4 teaspoon per 5 gallons. Within 2 days it was mostly gone. It no longer looked like a cotton ball stuck to his fin. I also raised the temp to 82. But the fin still had a white film on it. Last night I used the methylene blue. I'm using a duel treatment. I think the cotton fungus is a secondary infection. He looks much better today. The fish is the one in my photo here. I've had him for sometime. I hope this helps.

I would do partial water changes and add salt to the thank one tablespoon per 5 gallons to the tank to kill off the fungus in the tank and raise temp to kill off the fungus. Take some water from your aquarium in a container and rinse out your filter in the That water. After a few days it should be gone from your tank. Good luck.

 

[dbf909]

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate the help and experience.

Well the Dwarf Gourami and the Molly died today. The only fish left in the tank is one of the Diamond Tetras. Interestingly, he has not shown any effects - no fungus on the fins. He is still very active and eats well. Maybe it has run it's course... wishful thinking anyway.

To answer oscarchic11's question, we did vac the gravel 3 times in the two weeks after the fish were added. It was really been pretty clean considering there were 6 fish in there for 2 weeks. There was virtually no leftover food as the Molly was a great bottom scavenger.

I unfortunately don't have a "sick" or "quarantine" tank. That would be really nice to have but I don't have the space for it right now. I actually have a small 2.5g Beta tank with a Deep Blue Nano HOB filter but it is housing 7 4mo old Molly fry and I don't want to infect this tank right now.

The plan, assuming that the last Tetra expires, is to add a large bag of carbon to the filter and do a couple of massive water changes over a few days to get rid of the Methyl Blue. I will probably also replace the filter cartridge(s) in the filter - hopefully the Bio-wheel and the gravel is holding enough to keep the Bio filter alive. I'll manually add Ammonia to keep it fed. I may remove all of the plastic plants and decorations and clean them in hot water. I will stir up and vac the gravel real well to try and get most of the stuff out. I may rinse it in some DO water from the LFS as well but I really don't want to totally kill off the Bio in it if I can avoid it.

I'll probably run the carbon for a week or so after the cleaning and water changes just to make sure all of the meds are gone and to make sure that the Bio is still intact.

I'm then considering re-medicating the empty tank with Pimafix for another week just to be sure that all of the fungus is gone. Then more carbon and add maybe 2 Platys or Mollys - just to make sure that it doesn't come back.

I'm told that the life cycle of the fungus spores is 2-4 weeks so theoretically if I went 4 weeks, I should be good to add fish with little risk. However, it seems that Pimafix or something else would be good as a preventative - maybe aquarium salt would be better than Pimafix...

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for the replies.

 

[oscarchic11]

I just found one of my gups with velvet, another kind of fungus, and was advised to up the temp to 82 and add salt after qting her. Good luck!!

 

[dbf909]

Sorry to hear about your Guppy. Hopefully it will be OK.

I forgot about the temp. Maybe rather than do the Pimafix for a week I will raise the temp up to 84-85 degrees and add a good dose of salt (there won't be any fish in there). I don't want to kill the Bio though. The temp shouldn't be a problem but I don't know if the salt will kill it or not - it shouldn't unless I add too much.

How much salt did you add?

I just want to be as sure as I can be that I've gotten rid of whatever has infected all of my fish before I add any more...

 

[oscarchic11]

I dont have salt so i raised the temp and dosed her water with kordon rid-ich+ which kills fungus as well.

 

[Pam is here]

Walmart has non iodized salt for about .39 cents. You add 1 tablespoon per 5 g's of water.

 

[dbf909]

Update:

It turned out that the Dwarf Gourami did not die - he was hiding somewhere and I didn't see him. At this point there are two fish in the tank - a Diamond Tetra and a Dwarf Gourami.

I went ahead and raised the temp up to 85, put a Charcoal/Carbon bag in the filter, and added salt. I put 2 tablespoons of salt in every 12 hours until I had 6 total tablespoons in the 20 gallon tank. I kept the light off most of the time as well.

After the water cleared up, I noticed that the fungus was gone from both fish - but they now have ich !!! The Tetra had 3 or 4 white spots on its fins and the Gourami had 20-25 on each side right behind its gills. They seemed to be feeling better though - much more active and eating well.

By Saturday (yesterday) afternoon, all of the white spots had disappeared. I figure that the ich cysts had dropped off and were in the multiplying phase. I'm hoping that the salt and high temp will kill them before they attack the two fish again.

I'm really surprised that these two fish are handling the 85 degrees and salt as well as they are. They seem very happy in these conditions.

I plan to do gravel vacuums every 2-3 days and maintain the salt and temp for at least 10 days - hopefully this will get rid of the ich. If it comes back, I will have to use some other meds.

For now, the Bio is doing fine - ammonia and nitrites are still 0 every day I test. Hopefully this will remain intact as well - we'll see.

 

[dbf909]

New Update:

Day 5 of Salt/Temp treatment.

All still seems to be well. I have not added any more salt - I'm still at 6 tbsp in the 20gal tank. The water level has dropped about 3/4" due to evaporation but that is OK since the lower level creates a nice waterfall from the filter which keeps the oxygen level up.

The temp has been pretty solid at 86 degrees and the fish do not seem to mind at all. They are very active and eating well. No sign of either ich or fungus. We have vacuumed the gravel once - we'll probably do a 25% water change (replacing the salt) and vac again tomorrow evening.

The best news is that this treatment has had no measurable effect on the Bio filter. Daily water tests have showed pH remaining at 7.4 and ammonia and nitrite at 0. Nitrate is up to about 25-30 but has only risen 5-10 ppm in the last 5 days.

All in all I think that this treatment is working well - only time will tell. We plan to leave the salt and temp at 86 for another 5 days or so (10 days total treatment). Then we will start dropping the temp back to 80 over the next 2-3 days. We will also do 25-50% water changes daily for the next 4 or 5 days to get rid of the salt.

We will then replace the carbon bag with a fresh one and probably add two more fish at that point - we'll see how everything goes. We still have no good way to quarantine the new fish since we have no space for another tank. I guess we'll just take our chances...

 

[dbf909]

Another ich outbreak - argh !!!!!

Update:

I waited 10 days, dropped the temp back to 80 and then did a 50% water change the next day. 2 more days and another 50% water change. Another 3 days and a 50% water change left 12.5% of the salt that I put in. I had vacuumed the bottom 4 or 5 times more.

The fish have been very healthy with no sign of any disease at all. All in all it had been over 2.5 weeks since treatment and all seemed good. If there was still ich in the tank, the remaining fish would show signs of the parasite, right?

I got another Diamond Tetra and 2 small Ottocinculus (just over 1") and added them to the tank. Everything was great for exactly 10 days...

Then I saw a few small white spots on the new Tetra, nothing on the others. The spots are on its back and near the tip of its Dorsal fin. It definitely looks like ich.

This had to come with these fish from the LFS. I tell you, I am getting very frustrated with this. Each and every time I fight and conquer a disease, I get a few new fish and 8-10 days later - ich. I think that I may be done with this particular LFS !!!

So, yesterday as soon as I saw the spots, I cranked the heater back up and added 2 tbsp of salt. I noticed this morning that the temp was still 79 and the heater light was on - the heater was dead (4 months old) !!! So I added 2 more tbsp of salt and went to the LFS for a new heater. I installed the new heater and set it to 86. Then this afternoon I added 2 more tbsp salt, the temp was up to about 84.

Now tonight the temp is stable at 86 and the fish seem to be doing OK. I'm not sure about the to Ottos as they hide out most of the day. Hopefully the salt and heat won't kill them.

This is just getting crazy. I don't have the space or $ for another tank to quarantine new fish for weeks at a time before adding them to the general population. Surely this is not normal to deal with new diseases every month or so.... ????

Argh !!!!