New tank with Ich

[Joey P]

I just set up a new tank with 9 fish in it (fully cycled, all levels at or near zero).
I noticed after a few days that a few of the barbs had developed Ich.

I picked up a bottle of Ick Guard II and I have a few questions. The bottle gives dosing instructions and mentions that you can treat again in 24 hours if the symptoms persist.

Is it safe to assume that I just add the next dose without any kind of water change or should I do a partial water change before adding the next dose?

And yes, I did take the carbon out of the filter.
Once the symptoms are gone, I assume I continue to treat and leave the temps up for another 4 days, correct?

 

[Convict2161]

I'm battling ich right now. You can do it without meds. I'm doing the heat salt method. Not sure if that would apply to tiger barbs but a quick google would clear that up. Actually I have some time so stand by.............. Found this

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

Ok after some searching you can use the same method. I just wanted to be sure. You can slowly raise the temp to 86 degrees. Add 1 tablespoon of Kosher salt per 5 gallons everyday slowly throughout the day or in two doses. Every 2nd day perform a 50% water change and clean gravel/sand decor the best you can.

Lower your water level to help aerate the water. You can even throw an air stone in the tank. Higher temps means less oxygen.

I can't help you with meds sorry as I don't like adding chemicals to the tank and this treatment is working.

I have however offered you a alternative

Good luck

 

[Joey P]

I've seen the salt remedies but for since there are so many out there and they don't all seem to jive with each other, I went with the meds.

Anyways, after 24 hours I changed about 20% of the water and redosed it. I'm planning to do that again tonight.

 

[Convict2161]

I've seen the salt remedies but for since there are so many out there and they don't all seem to jive with each other, I went with the meds.

Anyways, after 24 hours I changed about 20% of the water and redosed it. I'm planning to do that again tonight.

Gotcha. Good luck and keep us posted. I'm on day 7 with no new spots and no deaths.

 

[Joey P]

Changed the water before the first and second dose bit I skipped changing the water last night. I'll probably skip it tonight as well.

The ich on the fish that had it fist seems about the same but it's spread to my shark. Hopefully it'll start disappearing soon. Today will be Day 4.

 

[Joey P]

The ich on the shark is getting much worse. I've read that it gets worse before it gets better, but I have no idea how much worse or how long it takes to get better.

I seem to read a lot of good stuff about turning the heat up and adding salt. At this point, I'm thinking that I may discontinue use of Ich Guard II and make the jump over to salt.

Would that be a good idea or am I making the ich that's still in the tank more resistant to meds? Can I use both at the same time?

Also, I have a Red Tail Shark, a BN Pleco, a Pearl Gourami, a Flame Gourami and 5 tiger barbs. Is it safe to use salt with all those fish?

Finally, what kind of salt. I've read both Kosher salt and "Aquarium Salt". IIRC most pet stores carry a box labeled "Aquarium Salt". I assume I'm supposed to use that and not something designed for setting up a SW tank like Instant Ocean.

 

[Convict2161]

You don't wanna use salt meant for saltwater tanks like instant ocean. I use Kosher salt.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_salt

 

[Joey P]

My kosher salt has an anti-clumping compound...should I avoid that?

 

[Convict2161]

My kosher salt has an anti-clumping compound...should I avoid that?

I don't know what that compound is. I'd stick with straight Kosher salt or non ionized salt.

Found this, it may help

The difference between non-iodized table salt and sea salt or Kosher salt is that table sat is pure Soidium Chloride (NaCl). Non iodized table salt has nothing in it that can hurt fish that are used to salt. It is definitely therapeutic at up to 1 teaspoon per gallon for curing Ich and other superficial parasites. It also helps wounds heal to a small extent.

What it lacks is the problem. Table Salt doesn't have the 7.68% sufate, 5.68% Magnesium, 1% Calcium !% phosphate, and 0.4 % Bicarbonate that are the averages for Sea Salt. So you can't set up a salt water tank with it, it's missing suflate, magnesium and all the trace elements salt water organisms need. However, this fact has no effect on the ability of table salt to be used in small amounts to treat illnesses. It is the sodium chloride part that kills microorganisms.


Source(s):

Robert Price
Ichthyologist and Lecturer in Aquaculture

 

[Joey P]

I was at the pet store anyways and picked up some Aquarium Salt. My understanding is that it's nothing but NaCl so I should be in the clear.

My tank is a 40 gallon tank, but when I first filled it, I paid attention and counted 36 gallons (makes sense considering all the stuff in it.

I mixed up about 7.5 tablespoons of salt in some tank water and did a water change (about 25% or so) while it was dissolving. After refilling and adding Prime, I added some of the salt water. I'll add some more over the next few hours and probably have it all in over the next 9-10 hours or so. Unless I should slow down and add the rest tomorrow.

I also added another airstone, just a regular small one. But the first one is so big (and thus fairly unrestricted) all it really did was steal some of the air from that one. Either way, at least some of the bubbles are in a different area of the tank.

Now, if I'm understanding everything correctly, with the salt in the tank and the heat and air turned up, I just sit back and hope for the best. Nothing really I can do at this point other then make sure they eat well (and they do eat well).

 

[Convict2161]

Yup nothing you can do now but wait and see. Do your water changes every 2nd day and keep an eye on them. Good luck!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Ich is really simple to treat if you know how.

To treat:
Increase temp to 86-88f.
Increase aeration (the warmer the water the less oxygen it holds).
Increase gravel vacs and water changes to help remove the free swimming stage of the ich.
Leave the temp up for at least one week after the last spot leaves the fish.
Slowly decrease temp to normal.
Salt isn't usually needed. It can help ward off infection but so does pristine water conditions.
The amount of salt needed to actually kill the ich is too much for many tropical fish to handle for an extended amount of time.
You are right that it does get worse before it gets better with the heat method.

 

[Joey P]

Ich is really simple to treat if you know how.

To treat:
Increase temp to 86-88f.
Increase aeration (the warmer the water the less oxygen it holds).
Increase gravel vacs and water changes to help remove the free swimming stage of the ich.
Leave the temp up for at least one week after the last spot leaves the fish.
Slowly decrease temp to normal.
Salt isn't usually needed. It can help ward off infection but so does pristine water conditions.
The amount of salt needed to actually kill the ich is too much for many tropical fish to handle for an extended amount of time.
You are right that it does get worse before it gets better with the heat method.

I increased the temp over the first few days. I beleive it's hovering in the 86-88 degree range.
I turned my (large) airstone up from about half power to all the way open.
It's a new tank and I really hadn't done any vacs before. I've changed the water (IIRC) 3 times since I started.

Other then that, I did Ick Guard II for the first few days and then switched over to salt. All the fish are acting normal, so, so far so good I guess.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Sounds good.

 

[Joey P]

Well, the Ich is about 90% gone now. I really only see it on on one fish and it's not nearly as bad as it was a few days ago on that one. I believe, I should be leaving the salt in and heat up for about another week and a half before I'm done.
Also, I haven't done anything to the tank since the salt went in. I probably wait until the week mark to do a water change.
Speaking of water changes. I did pick up a Aqueon water changer and it does work much better, but I'm actually thinking about getting a new faucet now to make the water changer easier to hook up to. The one I have now is a pain to connect it too. Who knew the fish hobby would extend that far.

Oh, and after this, I do plan to set up a QT tank for the next fish I got. When I first started, I wasn't planning on it, I was just going to try to be lucky. But I have a 10g tank that needs to be cleaned and it'll be trivial to use that. I just need to pick up a filter, lid and a heater and I should be (more or less) good to go.

But I'll do some reading or start a new thread about that when I'm ready.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

You really want to increase the amount of water changes while treating ich. It helps to remove some of the free swimming parasites. It also keeps the water cleaner which is essential when trying to ward off bacterial infections that can developer in the holes left on the fish's body by the ich.

If you do a 50% water change then 50% of the salt would have been removed. You will have to add a half dose back with the new water.

 

[Joey P]

Well, everything seems to be all cleared up. I've done a few 50% water changes since the last post (and my water changer hose blow off the side of the faucet attachment...that was mess).

My plan is to do 2 50% changes as soon as is convenient over the next week or so to remove most of the salt and then get back to regular weekly water changes.

After the two 50% changes I'm planning to add two Glo-Fish into the tank. They've been in a little 1.8 gallon tank for a few months. It's a pain to maintain that little tank and they really seem to like to swim. I think they'll be much happier in the big tank.

I'd like to get a few more so they have a group to swim with, but I'm not ready to set up a QT and I really don't want to go through Ich again.

Now that I think about it though, I could move the two fish I have to the big tank, get three more and put them in the little tank for a few weeks and then move them into the big tank (and then shut down the little tank). Eureka, I've got it.

I think that sounds like a good plan! (right?)

For the record, the little 1.8 tank really isn't the tank I want to use as a QT. It's a bad tank with a terrible design that never should have been for sale. But I have it, it's established and it's healthy, so I can use it for this. But once it's done, I'll probably toss it.
This is the one I have. The filter and light setup on top get in the way of everything. It's hard to remove water, hard to add water, hard to mount a heater on the side. A brand new filter (Small) gets clogged in a few days. The fact that I bought this for my daughter as out first tank is why I set up a 40 gallon tank about a week later. I knew right away it wasn't going to work in the long term and at some point the maintenance issues were going to get ahead of me.