not sure if fish is sick, just double checking

[rubysoho]

hey, first of all, i am new to the forum. my 10 gal tank has been set up now for nearly 6 months and all has been fine until last week. originally i started the tank with 5 zebra danios with the idea that one i had a healthy tank, i'd exchange them for some juli cory cats and other "cooler" fish. Of course, i fell in love with them so they now have their own separate tank. Anyway, getting off subject. Last week was when i added two cory cats and two black phantoms to my bunch ( 5 black phantoms total, 2 cory cats, 2 oto cats). Since then one of the new black phantoms (i know it was the new one because those two were slightly bigger than the rest of my phantoms) and one cory cat has died. Also, the phantoms seem to be hiding more and I found one (from my original three) resting (right side up) on the gravel this morning for about 5 minutes before it started swimming around. This one seems to have lost some of its black markings and is pale, so i am very worried about losing another fish.

i do about a 30% water change ever week or week and 1/2, and up until the new fish were added, everyone seemed extremely healthy and happy

when this first happened a week ago i went back to the fish store and asked if maybe they had sick fish, or something. they didn't and asked me to bring in a water sample. apparently my pH was around 8, which i was told to be very high and it needed to be brought down to 7. Since then I have brought the pH down to around 7, but i am still worried about that black phantom.

also, could it be that the black phantoms are more docile and shy now because i took the danios out of the tank? before i moved my danios, everyone (3 phantoms, 5 danios, 2 oto cats) seemed to be swimming around a lot and eating. now the phantoms just hide in the plants and wont come eat when i feed. i am afraid that they might not be eating enough which is why the one phantom has started to pale.

please let me know what you think. all advice is welcome.

 

[Menagerie]

[center:a2cb7855d9] Welcome to AA, rubysoho!! [/center:a2cb7855d9]
That pH is a tad high for those fish, but I just don't think it's THE problem. What are your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings?
You could ask what pH the store keeps its tanks.
What did you use to bring the pH down?

 

[rubysoho]

i dont have the testing kits for the rest. normally the store i go to (which is within walking distance so it is quite often) will test stuff for me, but i guess when they discovered my pH was too high, they sent me home with directions on what to do to get the pH down slowly so it didn't shock the fish (I just read somewhere else on this site that there is a theory that fish don't get pH shock...). i'll have to wait until tomorrow because the store is closed now. oh, and i did just get my own pH test kit, so i can check it a little more regularly... can you tell i'm a newbie?? hehe

 

[Menagerie]

because the store is closed now

That's why it's best to own all of your own test kits. It's a bit of money to shell out, but emergencies don't usually happen during business hours
What did the LFS tell you to do to lower the pH?

 

[rubysoho]

the guy working there told me to do a water change and use the regular dose of Neutral Regulator, then to come back 24 hours later and test the water again... so i did and the pH didn't go down much, so we repeated the process and added another regular dose plus another half dose... then i went back today (two days later) and the store owner was there and he tells me that changing the water actually raises the pH and he told me to put another dose of the Neutral Regulator plus a half dose. i hope he was right. my fishes seem alright, although i am still worried about the one phantom. however, everyone seems to be swimming around peacefully... actually, i just checked and the little phantom has recovered some more color (the black on her tail was very pale along with her dorsal fin), so i am hopeful. oh, and on a side note, there is this weird translucent spore-like stuff growing on my plants as well as everything else in the tank... i left a post in the plant forum which talks more about it.

 

[Menagerie]

I would not add anything to regulate pH. Depending on the buffers in your water, pH swings can result and cause harm to the fish. I really believe your fish do not mind the pH. Unless you are trying to care for very delicate fish or are trying to breed fish, pH that is off by a bit is not going to harm them.
The only thing I add to my tanks is dechlor. If you want to lower pH, go the natural route by using driftwood or peat.

Do some quick research on the fish you are keeping by going to www.liveaquariac.com and see what the ideal water requirements are for each of your fish

 

[rubysoho]

i already had done the research before i got my fish. everyone in my tank likes the pH to be anywhere from 6.5 to 7.2 or something around that... i got a couple different numbers on different fish. but i'll go ahead and double check it. I know my danios like anything from 6.5-7.5, they are crazy, and so much fun.

 

[i3k]

Probably not the pH that caused deaths...it was more likely the ammonia...ammonia will have fish laying on their sides in a quickness and since you did some more water changes you said the fish recovered some color which is always a good sign. I would do about 20% water changes every 4 days or so because a 10 gal tank will dirty up faster with food in the gravel along with the fish "droppings"...so when you do water changes make sure you clean out the gravel real well...move it around so there are no dead spots in the gravel and less bacteria will build up...also I wouldn't mess with the pH anymore all you really need to add to your water is some type of dechlor. like StressCoat...I like that one best it makes your water smell like fresh wet dirt haha 8)

 

[rubysoho]

cool, thanks for all the help. i am hoping that my tank will be pretty much back under control soon. i'll go get the water tested tomorrow after i finish class to double check. hopefully the really sweet guy is there he and i always chat for a while when i go in.

 

[rubysoho]

hmmm... just tucked everyone in for the night, and the one phantom seems a little pale again. i don't know what is going on... also, my cory has gotten very quiet, i think it is lonely because his partner was one of the two fish i lost... poor thing... hope it isn't sick too :|

 

[rubysoho]

same thing happened this morning. found my phantom resting in the gravel on its belly. my pH is refusing to go down as well... i'm going to get the rest of the tests done today after classes.

 

[Menagerie]

my pH is refusing to go down as well

Water has natural buffers. DO NOT mess with the water chemistry, that is not the problem.

Once you get your ammonia and nitrite readings let us know.

 

[rubysoho]

ok, here are the readings:

ammonia 0
nitrATE 0
nitrITE 0
pH 7.5

I just checked the faucet water, it has a pH of 7.0, its gotta be something in my tank so here is a rundown of everything in the tank

fish: 1 juli cory cat
2 oto cats (the biggest one, about an inch, is missing as of this morning :| )
4 black phantom tetras
1 bloodfin tetra

artificial decoration: 1 plastic stump and one tree goblin, both from Walmart

live plants:
anacharis
banana plant
camboba(?)
narrow leaf ludwigia
mechanical stuff:
carbon filter (just changed the filter yesterday)
heater

any ideas??

the store gave me some free Alkaline stuff, it is made by seachem...and i cant remember the whole name...but i am waiting for your ideas first

 

[rubysoho]

i took a gamble (since i really still dont know what happened in my tank) and moved two of my danios back into my main tank just to see if the fishies would start eating again when i drop flakes, and occasionally bloodworms, into the tank. i let them swim around for a while, then when i went to feed them, everyone was eating again... maybe some of my phantoms have been looking a little pale because they haven't been going straight for the food, and maybe were just scavenging around the bottom of the tank? but that still doesnt explain the death of 1 cory and 1 new phantom... however, maybe the phantom i've been worried about was just malnurished (though she didn't look lean or anything like that...). still, any ideas on whats making my tank pH go up once the water is placed in the tank are more than welcome.

oh, i wanted to mention that the gravel in my tank is good for freshwater tanks and should not be increasing any pH levels.

 

[Menagerie]

When you test your tap water, let it sit out overnight and then test.
What substrate are you using? Any crushed shells or coral in it?

 

[rubysoho]

nope, no crushed coral or shells at all... but i'll let the tap water sit out overnight to see... do you think i should use RO water if things don't clear up?

 

[rubysoho]

actually, i just found some tap water that had been left in a glass for a couple days (such is the college life, living with roommates) and it tested a pH level of 7

 

[Menagerie]

8O
Well, I guess I was hoping. I'm no chemist, but the water just does not get more basic for no reason. It's really late and I just can't think right now.

 

[rubysoho]

do you think it could be one of the plants? my second tank tested the exact same way, has a different subtrate (not coral or crushed shells), river rocks, but the same types of plants, minus a banana plant. can plants even do that??? i'm confused.

update on fish: everyone seems a little more active this morning, even the one who is still slightly paler(sp?) than the rest. I can tell my juli cory cat is getting lonely, but i don't want to add another fish unless i know for sure that they will be ok. just checked the pH... it is up to 7.6 now , should i use the stuff the fish store game me? I know you told me not to mess with the chemistry of the water, but should i g ahead and try it? I won't touch the chem until i hear from you again. thanks for all your help already.

 

[rubysoho]

ok, well.... everyone seems healthy again, so i moved over to the general board with a question on what could be making the pH go up. again, thanks for all your help!!!