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Old 12-05-2018, 04:12 AM   #11
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Are you using a liquid test kit?

I would recommend finding out what your pH is right now in your tank.

With all the plants melting there is an imbalance. If you have been using a stick test, then just know that it can work fine today and tomorrow even one thing be wrong, as I have happen to me and have a tank of fish die.

As for nitrates, 40 isn't ideal but not usually a tank killer.

When a person gets rid of a big bunch of plants from trimming, it changes the ratio of plants absorbing nutrients like ammonia from food and fish waste, and causes a mini cycle. Where there is more waste than can be processed.

With GF, they eat and excrete waste constantly and will make maintenance a large chore in a small tank. Not screaming at you, but it can not be ignored that 2 new GF in the smaller tank would throw off the amount of BB in the tank with too much to process. If you washed off the filter pad in tap water, it would further kill off BB.

If you suspect swim bladder, you can feed the cooked insides of the round green peas to the fish, and remove uneaten parts after an hour. You can add a tiny drip of liquid from a garlic clove onto the pea parts to flavor it better.

PWC will help dilute the stuff in the water.

But your water might not have any buffering capability and you might have low pH like a pH crash, if it doesn't have any buffer. Which will also kill plants and make them melt. Which would be useful to know about GH/KH, TDS and pH.

It will be hard to get the tank back in order without knowing more about the water parameters.

If the fish seems too ill you of course could euthanize it. If the fish in general are a burden you could find someone to adopt them or return them to the store as a donation. When I had a big family crisis I had to give away a few fish and corals because the pressure and issues I was having were incompatible for the demands of my time. In a tank without fish, you could continue to keep feeding up with fish food to make ammonia, the food for the BB, (and remove all bad plant matter) to keep the cycle going. As an additional option.

I hope things can get back to a general calm for you.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:04 AM   #12
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Fish is dead. Died while I was looking up how to euthanize her. Almost all plants are now dead, so glad I waited for them to come back around. (technically newest plant is still alive but looks sick and one other is still fighting, but all covered in black). I removed the Phosguard. The "grass" I have I listed the name of(vallisneria) already, it lists low light in every aquarium guide online. It was on my list of beginner plants. The healthiest plant is the one with the highest light requirements(echidnodorus)--taking the longest to die. My lights are pretty bright anyway. I listed those too. Much brighter than the lights at the aqua store. The sunlight I referred to(as I stated) was filtered light for about 20 minutes per day. The sun moves in the sky throughout the year you see and it never hit the tank(I ran a time lapse video before placing the tank there) when I first started it. As summer went on, the sun changed position, a neighbor tore down a tree and voila, instant sun. The orange spots appeared only in spots the sun hit. I stayed home for an afternoon and went into the room every 15 mintues. Sometime between 530 and 6pm filtered sunlight was hitting the tank. I moved it. It already had plenty of artificial light. The sun was only hitting the front wall and a small portion of the filter in the back.


Sorry, if I get miffed that no one actually reads what I wrote before posting replies. See, I run plenty of these discussions for actual mammals and we respond quickly with adequate info. Unfortunately we have no fish vets here, I cannot very well haul a tank around for people to look at. I already believed the orange spots were diatoms. Store guy stated they would not hurt the fish or plants. He showed me two new tanks he had set up that had them. He said with weekly cleaning, they would go away. He gave me Phosguard to place in the filter and two corys. Orange is gone i think, but black crap is on everything. His whole store uses Neutral Regulator(seachem) as a dechlorinator. he said it's ridiculously safe. It will not cause harm to the fish. He said it will only bring water with bad pH levels back to neutral, it won't mess with the levels if they are already OK. If this isn't true, please let me know. the bottle states nothing about it being unsafe. Per the bottle: it restores pH to neutral from either low or high pH, softens and conditions water, removes chlorine and chloramine and detoxifies ammonia. Sounds fine to me.


I have previously used two other dechlorinators stated by people in fish forums to be good. he said they're awful, had me change to this when problems arose(cloudy disgusting smelling water when initially cycling--his stuff worked).


So again, I assume all other fish will die. I looked for marks on the dead fish and only found a couple of black dots on her body that have been there either the whole time or since July. They were symmetrical, so I'm betting it was her color. Another minnow I have noticed has marks on its body. very faint, but there. They look potentially problematic. again these fish are small and they move fast, so hard to look at. I could think this is disease, but she had no marks like this. Her tail was partially missing by the time she died but it was there yesterday.



The plants. Lack of fertilizer shouldn't cause mass death with black spots. the red wendth had spots initially, but these are far more prolific. The plants wastes away. It turns clear, fall into pieces and dies. Also the moss from the log is growing on the glass, is that normal? I thought it was algae, but it grows tiny tufts that look identical to the stuff on the log. Is that killing the other plants? None of this makes sense. I had a perfect tank for 8 weeks and then it fell apart. Again the fish store's plant all look beautiful and healthy. My tank killed everything.



Should I give all the fish back, apparently I kill everything that comes home now. We have to put our rabbit down in the next couple of days. I literally have nothing left.


I was planning to upgrade to a larger tank when the goldfish got bigger. Again, as a child I had 6 goldfish in a ten gallon tank. No water testing and the fish lived for years. In fact, most only died after the biggest one ate them. The most I could afford to do now is upgrade to a 29 gallon, but I can't use anything in this tank lest I poison it. I water change every other week. If people here are stating I move too much with water changes but I need to do it more often, how does that make sense? What I see during cleaning isn't fish poop--it's dead plants. For the two months everything was perfect, the filter was still clean when I removed it after a month, now at 3 weeks it is clogged.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:25 AM   #13
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None of us are fish vets, that I am aware of.

What is the pH, GH/KH TDS.

Even with all information, you might not have an answer.

Water quality is a problem, since it does not stay the same at points in fish keeping, there would be NO way for us to say at any point in time what the parameters are or were, and just because you relate what it is presently, doesn't say what it was.

What it WAS any number of times could have been the issue.

What does your fish guy who has always steered you in the right direction say is going on?

I am sorry to hear about your rabbit. Life looks very tough for you.

You have been shared with a number of ideas. And asked for additional information. Perhaps you do not know the answers of all the questions. But with out some of the things like water parameters, amounts and frequency of water changes, it makes it difficult to answer.

As you mentioned you can't just hold up the tank and show each of us the tank and issues. So we rely on the feedback.

You mention that water changes make the nitrates worse. It can be because of muck in the substrate getting kicked up, and it could be vac'd.

Saying that you use pH regulator and that should be fine is not answering what the pH actually is.

Not having any kH can mean your tank isn't able to buffer., etc. So it is important details.

Having very high TDS can affect fish. This can happen by products that are added, not changing enough water and topping off water after evaporation with tap water containing more solids.

Reverse osmosis/ deionized water (or distilled) is good for adding back for evaporation.



Try and take a sample to the fish store and see if they can get you TDS, pH and all the other parameters.



What is your substrate?

I am not familiar with using neutral regulator as the standard of treating water.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:11 AM   #14
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Well we still don't know what your current water readings are to know even the basics of what you are dealing with and what your fish and plants are living in. These readings can swing from day to day in an uncycled tank.

If you were advised to keep your pH at 7.0 (neutral) by your store employee for goldfish then he has already advised you wrong. Goldfish need alkaline water or harder water than neutral. Again, using chemicals to alter pH will cause swings and can kill or harm your fish.

If you were told Seachem Prime is a bad dechlorinator then you were told wrong. If your tank was smelly during cycling it was because of the ammonia present during the nitrification process. This is normal and you can remove the smell by doing water changes to lower the ammonia, not adding chemicals. There's no need to add chemicals for cycling a tank. There's no need to alter pH to cycle a tank. If your water has a higher pH it's fine for goldfish. It's fine for most fish as they adapt to higher pH levels.

If you are doing a fish in cycle you should be testing the water daily to every other day with a liquid test kit. You should be keeping the ammonia level at .25 ppm. If it goes higher than this then do water changes until it's back down to .25 ppm or lower. If this means you are doing water changes every 2-3 days to keep the levels in an acceptable range then so be it. Nitrite shouldn't be over .25 ppm but 0 is ideal.

TDS, as Autumn stated and I've inquired about days ago, can affect health. Generally, anything at or below 400 ppm is ok for most fish.

Bottom line is something is going on with the quality of your water. It's why you have algae, fish death, and plants dying. So water readings as we have asked for is step 1. Whatever chemicals you add to your water in relation to your tested water readings is step 2. We haven't even began step 1.
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