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Old 12-16-2011, 12:30 PM   #1
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Our poor weather loach was found on the floor this morning :(

The poor thing, we've had him for a coupe of months now, one of the more interesting and fun fish i've ever seen, fantastic!

This morning my old man walked into the lounge to discover the poor guy was on the floor curled up and dry, my dad didn't think he was alive until he touched his tail and still gave us a large spring of life.

We put him back in the tank but it wasn't a pretty sight, he was curled up, darting almost as if he could get out of that position, it was quiet terrible to see him acting so strange and unable to uncurl but then suddenly he broke free!

Shortly after we saw the extent of damage, looked like his dorsal fin had been a bit damaged, he hasnt raised it like he normally does either, then behind that there is a massive drag of something (Broken fin/slime??) i didn't see it when we put him back in but when he was in the tank for 5 minutes i saw, i was thinking our main tank is in need of a clean and that he wasn't doing so well in there!

I had a second aquarium as a medicine tank (Large thing) until recently i broke it by putting it in my bath to clean and not realise the bath wasn't big enough (Curve had shifted the glass and it just gave in).

Now i have setup a clear plastic (Decent sized imo) properly cleaned container with my first fish pump (An apserlute oxygen monster and great at filtering too!)

I've relocated the loach to the tank where he is steadily breathing (Wohooo! not stressed *i hope*) and he is sat quietly i hope recovering! he is definately not as active as usual and his barbs aren't spaced open like usual, i haven't fed him yet, apparently he was fed this morning but i will do soon! It is new water though, i did a change on the main tank 60% new not long ago so he adapted to the clean water no problem at all!

Also the main tank has an ich issue, and i'm addressing it atm but could the ich become a problem with the lack of slime and damage fins, i'm off out to get some melafix/treatment of some sort atm just in case i see it develop, he seems to be very resistant to it so far, but when hurt, i doubt that resistance will hold.

Any advice would be appreciated guys:

Pictures to come.

Migs
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:46 PM   #2
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The poor thing, we've had him for a coupe of months now, one of the more interesting and fun fish i've ever seen, fantastic!

This morning my old man walked into the lounge to discover the poor guy was on the floor curled up and dry, my dad didn't think he was alive until he touched his tail and still gave us a large spring of life.

We put him back in the tank but it wasn't a pretty sight, he was curled up, darting almost as if he could get out of that position, it was quiet terrible to see him acting so strange and unable to uncurl but then suddenly he broke free!

Shortly after we saw the extent of damage, looked like his dorsal fin had been a bit damaged, he hasnt raised it like he normally does either, then behind that there is a massive drag of something (Broken fin/slime??) i didn't see it when we put him back in but when he was in the tank for 5 minutes i saw, i was thinking our main tank is in need of a clean and that he wasn't doing so well in there!

I had a second aquarium as a medicine tank (Large thing) until recently i broke it by putting it in my bath to clean and not realise the bath wasn't big enough (Curve had shifted the glass and it just gave in).

Now i have setup a clear plastic (Decent sized imo) properly cleaned container with my first fish pump (An apserlute oxygen monster and great at filtering too!)

I've relocated the loach to the tank where he is steadily breathing (Wohooo! not stressed *i hope*) and he is sat quietly i hope recovering! he is definately not as active as usual and his barbs aren't spaced open like usual, i haven't fed him yet, apparently he was fed this morning but i will do soon! It is new water though, i did a change on the main tank 60% new not long ago so he adapted to the clean water no problem at all!

Also the main tank has an ich issue, and i'm addressing it atm but could the ich become a problem with the lack of slime and damage fins, i'm off out to get some melafix/treatment of some sort atm just in case i see it develop, he seems to be very resistant to it so far, but when hurt, i doubt that resistance will hold.

Any advice would be appreciated guys:

Pictures to come.

Migs
Hi and welcome to AA.

First off I hope your poor guy makes it!
I just have a few questions.
Is the hospital tank cycled?
What size is it?
What size is the main tank?
What other fish (how many and what kinds)?
How are you treating the ich?
Scaleless fish like loaches are more sensitive to medications. I would hold of on adding any type of medication to the tank. Clean water conditions will go a long way in healing him. You will need to change some of his water every few days or everyday if the hospital tank is uncycled.
IMO (in my opinion) treating ich with heat and salt is the best method. Here is a link on it.
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:07 PM   #3
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Weather loaches can withstand being out of water longer than most fish can. It's truly amazing that they have that ability.

When medicating them, do it at half doses. They do not tolerate meds well. Also make sure to keep the water very clean while it's trying to recuperate.

I've had our weather's do this a few times (they find the smallest hole and they jump)
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:24 PM   #4
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Hey guys, thanks for the warm welcome!

I wanted to get back to you sooner but these 12 hour shifts suck!

Hmmm, sorry guys, unfortunately i didn't hold off on the medication :< i gave him a full dose in the medicine tank *Doh* should have read sooner, However!

His dorsal fin is now in fantastic shape and he has it raised! Melafix seems to be a powerful treatment, i can also report that after introducing my hand to see if he is playful, that his slime coat is now thriving! he was lovely and slippery when he swam between my fingers.

Still though i worry, i'm thinking i should do a partial water change tonight (If so how much do you think?) i normally did 50% every 3 days when it come to my medicine tank!

Hey mumma! What does the term cycled mean? i hear it regularly but unfortunately i'm not very bright with fish as of yet!

I can't tell what size hospital tank is, i recon 30-40L in relation to my tank that i broke which was i believe about 60L.

The main tank is a nice big tank roughly 200L in capacity!

In total it supports 2 comets, 1 normal goldfish (I think o.O) and a black moore (we had too until 1 passed away getting trapped in a toy recently, was a really sad day ) and ofcourse the lovely weather loach!

I've been trying medication to get rid of the ich, so far its nulled it but not gotten rid of it ! :@ the black moor i think has been infected with it a few months now but is plodding on, so i really want to deal with this guys!

Some shots!



I hope you can see that the water is crystal clean!



Minty fresh!

Also guys, i think his barbs are going pale like half way through (Like a broken bone!) (he jumped quiet high out of the tank! the fall must have been rediculous!) Should i see if i can get him into something more shallow and try take a picture for you?

I know loaches need their barbs! but can they heal/regrow??

Thanks Guys!

Migs
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:35 PM   #5
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Hi! I do not know much about loaches other than i believe they are social beings & need to be kept in shoals to be healthy. I may be wrong though! I can help you with goldies though if you need some help! Do you know your main tanks water parameters (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate)? What kind of water change schedule do you use? What are you using to treat what you believe is ich (i dont think this is what your dealing with-after mths, they would all be dead)? Can you possibily post pics of the sick moor? Although, you may be managing for right now with the goldfish you have stocked, i really would consider rehoming some of your fish. Commons/comets can grow to be 12-18inches in length & realistically need to be in a pond (or a 150gal+ tank). They really should not be combined with their slower & visually impaired brothers (moors)-the moors can not compete as well for food & may be bullied by their faster single-tailed siblings. That may be why you found 1 moor trapped-he was trying to hide/escape. Some more info will help to figure out whats going on with your goldies.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:25 PM   #6
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Hey jik!
Yeah loaches are social, i think they do like being with other loaches of their own kind, i do plan on another young'n as apparently bigger loaches love to look after them!

Unfortunately i dont have the parameters , i will defo get a kit though! the water schedule on the main tank varies, i've had issues trying to pump the water out but think i've nailed it now, what would you reccomend for 200l tank (Percentage and change ever so often?)

At the moment our biggest commet is having issues with bloody fins (Oxygen problems?) im not sure, any advice there? and yeah i think the comets will be passed along eventually, they are beautiful fish, especially when they sail but they need healing first, they haev some issues (Crumply front fins when swimming forward??)

Ironically the mores were the more dominant eaters of the tank! with the old pumps jet of bubbles, the moores were really the only ones to swim against the current (Definately for fun!) i think the death of our first moore was purely down to that stupid thing we put in, i'm so gutted, he had gold coming through his deep black in patches too!

All the fish school together except the weather loach, who comes out for tea or decides to wrap himself around the pump inlet pipe haha, but after the first moore died, they've been somewhat divided, the two comets are best friends, the goldfish does look out for the moore though!

You see the first moore got infected for 1 month, i had no idea about fish then, but managed to keep him alive (Barely) he had swim bladder problems + a serious case of white spot, as soon as i solved the swim bladder with a pea, i hit the white spot very hard and was able to cure it! but i think the dead moore caused stress on the other moore perhaps, as we found the alive moore circling the toy (It was a volcano, and the dead moore got stuck in it). I don't wana loose any more fish, my brother (young) gets very upset, thats why i'm this houses animal doctor haha!

Pictures of the family of fish to come tommorow !
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:31 PM   #7
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Thanks jlk!
200L is about 50 US gallons
The rule for fancy goldfish (this does not include koi, commets or common goldfish) is 20gal for the first and 10gal for each after that. If you can post some pictures of your unknown goldie we can I'd him for you. You are going to have to rehome your common goldfish at your LFS or to a pond unfortunately. A tank isn't going to be a healthy home for them.

Cycling a tank is where benificial bacteria (BB) are grown in your filter to process the ammonia your fish give off. Gold fish are huge ammonia producers so they need much larger tanks and higher filtration than the typical tropical set up. The BB consume the ammonia and convert it to nitrite. Another set of BB grow and consume the nitrite and convert it to nitrate. The nitrate is is then removed during weekly PWC (partial water change). Gold fish require large PWC often 2 even 3 times a week (especially in an over stocked tank). I will add some links at the bottom of my post for you to have a read through about cycling and how it is done.

I'm glad to hear your loach is doing better! Because of the small space of the qt (quarentine tank) daily PWC will need to be done so the ammonia is removed. The cleaner you can get the water the better and the better/faster he will recover. A really common reason fish jump from tanks (other than being prone to jumping) is poor water conditions. It's a good indication that something could be amiss in your tank. As jlk suggested you need to get a test kit to keep an eye on your parameters (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH). Most LFS (local fish stores) will test your water for free. Make sure they use a liquid test kit because strips can be highly inaccurate. The API freshwater master test kit is the most widely recommended.

Keep up your water changes and your loach will heal. No need to dose the melifix.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...now/Page2.html

Fish-in Cycling: Step over into the dark side.

The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

Also google 'the nitrogen cycle'.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:45 PM   #8
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Bloody, red looking fins can either be an oxygen issue or an ammonia/nitrite issue. Once you have a test kit, we will be able to rule amm/nitrite issues in or out. If you are seeing degraded fins on your goldies its indicative of fin rot which is a bacterial infection that typically happens with water quality issues. Less severe problems (i dont know without pics) can usually be cured simply with healthy water! What type of filtration do you have on your big tank? That & your exact water parameters will give me a better idea on water changes. I have moors (& other goldies) & follow a hefty water change schedule (50-70% 2-3x wk) because moors are very sensitive to their conditions & im a bit ocd on their care! For most goldfish, 50% once a wk is probably sufficent though 2x week is better. No such thing as too many water changes! We can figure out a better idea once we know where you stand with your water right now
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Old 12-18-2011, 02:32 PM   #9
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Yeah, i will get one next week as i've no money left this week *Cursed bills!* Big tank is a pod unit with several type of filter media! will get the picture and media layout up soon!

Hmm my lovely loach seems ok but he still seems off, no willingness to move on his own, i have never seen him eat yet (And surely he can't be only out at night!) maybe i should get another of my fish in with him? but then again he doesn't seem affected by the ich issue that i see on the other fish so i don't want to go ahead and infect him.

His baarbels still seem out of shape o.O but it does look like he is comfortably sat! any more thoughts?
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:02 PM   #10
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Yeah, i will get one next week as i've no money left this week *Cursed bills!* Big tank is a pod unit with several type of filter media! will get the picture and media layout up soon!

Hmm my lovely loach seems ok but he still seems off, no willingness to move on his own, i have never seen him eat yet (And surely he can't be only out at night!) maybe i should get another of my fish in with him? but then again he doesn't seem affected by the ich issue that i see on the other fish so i don't want to go ahead and infect him.

His baarbels still seem out of shape o.O but it does look like he is comfortably sat! any more thoughts?
Just keep changing his water. You don't want to add another fish in there. It would just contribute to ammonia build up. IMO he'll be better off back in the main tank. If there is ich everyone is infected. It's a parasite.
This is for tropicals but explains what it is.
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:37 PM   #11
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Just keep changing his water. You don't want to add another fish in there. It would just contribute to ammonia build up. IMO he'll be better off back in the main tank. If there is ich everyone is infected. It's a parasite.
This is for tropicals but explains what it is.
Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

Hmm i thought so, he just seemed really bad in the main tank, it needs a clean (Which i will do tommorow!)

I need to deccorate my tank some more i think! and i need another loach xD hes a loner atm! but a fun one at that.

I will clean the tank tommorow, and the filter, and re-add the carbon filtration bag to the unit and run it plain stock! then we can see about dealing with this ich infection i've tried fighting for so long!

Have to say, one of the comets (Who had really bad blood fin!) is looking a bit happier, the other comet still is a bit saggy in the sense hes dropping his back fins when he swims.

Black moore has some silly crumpled left fin (which hes had since he was born) but it seems like its getting worse , i will get some pictures for you in a minute!
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Old 12-18-2011, 04:59 PM   #12
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Hmm i thought so, he just seemed really bad in the main tank, it needs a clean (Which i will do tommorow!)

I need to deccorate my tank some more i think! and i need another loach xD hes a loner atm! but a fun one at that.

I will clean the tank tommorow, and the filter, and re-add the carbon filtration bag to the unit and run it plain stock! then we can see about dealing with this ich infection i've tried fighting for so long!

Have to say, one of the comets (Who had really bad blood fin!) is looking a bit happier, the other comet still is a bit saggy in the sense hes dropping his back fins when he swims.

Black moore has some silly crumpled left fin (which hes had since he was born) but it seems like its getting worse , i will get some pictures for you in a minute!
Don't over clean the tank you don't want to knock out your BB. Do a gravel vac and rinse filter media in tank water. Do a PWC too. No new to clean anything else. BB live on all the surfaces of your tank but mostly in the filter.

I wouldn't add another loach yet. You will need to rehome the commets first.

Increasing your water changes will do wonders when it comes to healing your fish.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:54 PM   #13
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Smelling the water recently, its been smelling like spices ffs, check today and notice hes got rather massive fin rot on his tail, ffs i keep trying and keep getting knocked back, i need to get these fish sorted and i keep running into walls.

PWC + Some melafix for the fins, before the water started smelling odd, i gave him some bloodworms which he DIDNT eat, i think these have contaminated, i'm getting really stressed out now! but i'm certainly not one to give up on the animals in our house :@ and the lack of money is bloody annoying too ffs,

Tommorow i wan't to completely clean the main tank + full water change and get all the fish back where they belong and healed for the first time ever, then i intend to do PWC of 50% every wednesday and sunday, i want to know your oppinions because i really have had enough, i can't seem to win whatever i do.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:59 PM   #14
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Smelling the water recently, its been smelling like spices ffs, check today and notice hes got rather massive fin rot on his tail, ffs i keep trying and keep getting knocked back, i need to get these fish sorted and i keep running into walls.

PWC + Some melafix for the fins, before the water started smelling odd, i gave him some bloodworms which he DIDNT eat, i think these have contaminated, i'm getting really stressed out now! but i'm certainly not one to give up on the animals in our house :@ and the lack of money is bloody annoying too ffs,

Tommorow i wan't to completely clean the main tank + full water change and get all the fish back where they belong and healed for the first time ever, then i intend to do PWC of 50% every wednesday and sunday, i want to know your oppinions because i really have had enough, i can't seem to win whatever i do.
Bad water conditions = fin rot unfortunately. I think he would be better off in the main tank. It may be over stocked but it's cycled and the water conditions are more stable because of the larger water volume. He will be less stressed and will recover faster in his home.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:01 PM   #15
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I've forgotten do you have a test kit? Maybe trade the comets in and use the money as savings for a kit?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:06 PM   #16
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But how??? He gets water changes daily, the water quality must be good, the filter i have now im sure is cycled also because of how long we've had and been using it (Years!)

He was doing so well this morning, and his barbels have straightened out (The best sign!) the main tank isn't having the water filtered so great atm, i recon its in need of new blocks (Already, its brand new too ffs)

Do you believe the fish could handle a complete fresh change of water?

No test kit, and i don't think my little brother would approve of me trading in the comets yet, he loves them things, and to be honest they're not overly sized, and suit the tank perfectly, and i wouldn't feel right trading in unhealthy fish, i've heard some right bad stories of some trade in places ><, and our comets are so great when at full strength
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:14 PM   #17
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But how??? He gets water changes daily, the water quality must be good, the filter i have now im sure is cycled also because of how long we've had and been using it (Years!)

He was doing so well this morning, and his barbels have straightened out (The best sign!) the main tank isn't having the water filtered so great atm, i recon its in need of new blocks (Already, its brand new too ffs)

Do you believe the fish could handle a complete fresh change of water?

No test kit, and i don't think my little brother would approve of me trading in the comets yet, he loves them things, and to be honest they're not overly sized, and suit the tank perfectly, and i wouldn't feel right trading in unhealthy fish, i've heard some right bad stories of some trade in places ><, and our comets are so great when at full strength
It will take time. They won't heal over night. Keep up the water changes and you'll see improvement in the next couple of weeks. 50% every 3 days is good. Some goldfish breeders do 100% water changes daily! IMO not needed here.

Do you mean the filters clogged? Just rinse the media in a bucket of tank water.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:18 PM   #18
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I gave all the filter medium a good wash about 2 days ago and already the water is clouding up, although i think i could have cleaned the impeller/input/output system better.

So tommorow i will sort this for good thanks so much for the help, i will finally get the pictures up (I keep promising) so that i can show you the shape of the other fish, hopefully my little loaches fins start picking up again .

Was certain he was ready to get back in action as well
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:19 PM   #19
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I gave all the filter medium a good wash about 2 days ago and already the water is clouding up, although i think i could have cleaned the impeller/input/output system better.

So tommorow i will sort this for good thanks so much for the help, i will finally get the pictures up (I keep promising) so that i can show you the shape of the other fish, hopefully my little loaches fins start picking up again .

Was certain he was ready to get back in action as well

Just one more question. Does the water have a milky white cloudy look to it?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:21 PM   #20
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A complete wc for the big tank? I wouldnt go that extreme because it may be a shock for your fish. The ph of your tap vs the tank are probably a bit different & too rapid of a change in ph may not turn out well. You are better off doing a 50% wc a few days in a row (or even 1 every day for wk) rather than one big change at once so your fish a have chance to adjust over a few days.
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