Pictus Catfish help...

[ceekay]

(wasn't sure where to put this, so if it's in the wrong spot, forgive me...)

So I started a tank originally to keep my baitfish for fishing... Most of my minnows had died off since, so I bought three little Pictus cats from Walmart; I love catfish, and these guys are so pretty with their long whiskers and spotted paintjob!!

Anyways, I introduced them to the water in the usual method (dip the bag, wait a half hour or so for the temps to normalize, then release into the water).... Well, as soon as I stuck the bag into the water, the Pictus started FREAKING OUT, swimming frantically! I kept my composure and waited for the waters to normalize to each other, then gently dumped the fish into their new home; my 10gal freshwater tank...

Now, however, they're absolutely convinced that they have to spend every last bit of strength to try and swim through the left side of the tank; for whatever reason, they just cannot comprehend that there's glass there and they're DEAD SET on getting to somewhere...

They've been at it for the past two hours at least. They won't touch the flake food, the pleco wafers, the little mini krill, nothing... They just keep trying to push their way through the glass. One of the three stops every so often and chills at the bottom, but it's not long before he's at it again... It's like they're standing at a brick wall trying to push themselves through it...

I'm concerned they're going to just keep trying until they die of exhaustion...

Tank-mates are:
6 minnows (who don't bother them, they keep to the Viking helm cover mostly)
1 Pleco who looks about as content as a fish who spends 90% of its time stuck to something could look.

Water is fresh tap, treated with chlorine treatment. Temp is about lukewarm/room temp. I have a pump and a bubbler and there are tons of tiny o2 bubbles in the tank; there's no way in hell they're oxygen-starved. I've tried turning everything off, and they're still convinced that they MUST devote ALL of their strength to swimming through a solid object...

Is there something I'm doing wrong? :S


Thanks,
- CK

 

[ceekay]

So one of them chased the minnows out of the little resin helmet and the second has calmed down a lot, but the third is still acting kind of panicked... Maybe I'm overreacting... Still, they all seem to highly favor the filter side and avoid at all costs the plant and bubbler side...

Oh, and they seem to be fond of the yellow flakes (less so the other colors)... They've finally eaten something...


- CK

 

[Autumnsky]

Temperature is only part of the acclimating. Also pH. The tank water itself.

Do you have a filter for this tank?

What size tank is it? [edit] Saw it is a 10G. Not the correct sized tank. These guys are big swimmers and get to around 5+ inches long even as little guys they would need around ~30 inch wide tank and room to turn around. That would be for maybe 2.5" but often these are 3-4 inches in the store.

Pictus cats aka Spotted Cats like pretty clean water.

Do you know the Ammonia NitrIte and NitrAte levels? PH?

Generally you would add a little of the water from the tank to the bag every 5 or so minutes then dump out half of the water or more from the bag and do it again so in about a half hour you have gently got the fish used to the new water, and the lights out help and hiding places like plants rocks and Driftwood (DW).

These fish would do best in a BIG tank ~75G would be good. If they don't have enough room to grow they can be stunted. Where the internal organs continue to grow in a small amount of room in the body and will generally cause premature death, propensity to get illnesses and in general have a pretty miserable life compared to a fish enjoying proper growth in the appropriately sized tank.

Do you have a thermometer to know what the temp really is? Info says 75-81F on LA.

They likely had temps at the store around 78F.

 

[PassengerTN]

Pictus cats are quite different from bigger cats. They're all over the tank all the time, extremely active.

Most of the frantic swimming is likely to be from a new environment. Assuming water parameters check out good, give it some time and they'll likely stop


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[ImACoolguy]

Personal owner of a pictus cat.

First they need a much bigger tank than a 10g these are some of the most active fast Catfish you can buy. I love the suggestion of a 75g but I think 50+ would be fine.

Mine is in a 75g and yes, swimming against the glass is normal behavior, don't ask why, but mine does it as well. It's live he doesn't know there is 74 more gallons to the tank.


Caleb

 

[Autumnsky]

There are 3 Pictus Cats. They are truely beautiful creatures.

 

[ceekay]

My cousin many states away suggested the same (nitrite/nitrate/pH)... Thing is, I completely expected to only keep junk bait fish alive... I'll have to hit Petco or something tomorrow and get some testing supplies and some sort of thermometer/heating unit... I suppose they'll have ite/ate/pH correction kits too...

As for 70 gal tanks - There's no way I'm buying a tank I can sleep in (plus the extra pumps, filters, bubblers, rock, plants, etc. etc. etc.) for three 3-dollar fish (oh, I forgot to add, either the fish person wrote the wrong number or the cashier punched it in wrong, so instead of 7 bucks, I got them for 3 and some change; about half price!)... Sorry, but that's just silly... There are only going to be four catfish (3x Pictus, 1x Pleco) in this tank once these minnows die off... Since LA suggests 70gal for plecos (which is hilariously too much tank for less than a handful of fish regardless of how active they may be and ESPECIALLY for generic plecos), I'm figuring they're suggesting tank size either to sell more huge tanks (which cost huge money) or they are taking into consideration people having 20+ fish in one tank... I'm hoping the latter...

Still, I'm content with just my four little cats... If they get big enough to eat earthworms, I'd be tickled pink! If not, then the tank will probably get disassembled and put away.

Anyways, a bit of an update on their eating habits:

They're eating well now, and they LOVE the flake food! Once the flakes hit the pump and get pushed under, they go NUTS! I also see that they (most likely along with the minnows) destroyed two algae wafers in the 4 or so hours I was at work. They don't much care for the sun-dried shrimp bits, at least I haven't seen them touch 'em yet...

LA suggests 'small live food' as well as wafers and flake for complete nutrition - what should I be looking for as far as small live food is concerned?

Thanks, guys! This forum has already proved to be a real asset... Hopefully I won't need this particular subforum very often, but I'm very glad it's here.


- CK

 

[ImACoolguy]

The reason such a tank size it suggested is because fish will grow to the size of their environment. One of the most common examples: a goldfish in a bowl. If could survive but it's growth would be stunted. Stunting is where the outside of a fish grows to its environment but its internal organs and stuff don't stop growing. This causes weird body deformations and premature death. Your pleco, especially if it's a common, and likely the pictus, WILL all experience this stunting if not given a bigger tank.

I understand that 4 fish in a 75g sounds ridiculous but you got to look at the perspective of when the fish is adult size. Oscars are sold at around 1-3 inches but in a year or two can get around 10-12 inches and need a 75+ gallon tank to themselves because of their bioload. If you have a common pleco that thing will get around 20 inches long and be the biggest pooping machine you have ever seen.


Caleb

 

[PassengerTN]

Pictus will eventually start eating your minnows btw. I keep 6 fish in a big tank.


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[ceekay]

Fair enough... So I will be looking at getting a much bigger tank in the near future... Still dunno if I'm going to get a 70, but will get a bigger tank.

Also, as I said, the minnows are just leftover bait. I'm also now down to 5, and it's not breaking my heart...

[edit] So I see two minnows still kicking and the other two I pulled out dead this morning... So I'm missing two. Still, minnows are specifically bred to be fed to bigger better fish, whether by means of hook or by means of adding to tank. It wouldn't break my heart if the cats start eating them...[/edit]


- CK

 

[Autumnsky]

You can do a reasonable tank, Petco often has a $1.00 per gallon sale which means you can get the basic new tank for $55 for a 55G, 40 gallon breeder tank would be better because of the length if you won't get the larger tank. Though I don't think all stores always have all the sizes so you can call around to check.

How often are you doing water changes. If there is uneaten food in the tank there will be an increase of ammonia. Result will be dead fish. Which begins the nitrification cycle.

Prime water conditioner is great for helping keep the water parameters in check and so is changing the water.

With that size tank you will be needing to do VERY frequent water changes. If you don't you will likely see dead or sick fish. Just because fish are inexpensive doesn't make them throw away. The common Pleco is a poor choice for most any commonly kept fish tank, so common Pecos are anything but common they are exceptional in their size and pooping ability.

When you purchase these fish you take the care and responsibility.

Some fish are bred to be food, as "feeder" fish, bait or as food for animals or humans. They should be treated humanely no matter. A person has the ability to take care of an animal with knowledge and reason.

It seems you are a reasonable person who is learning about keeping catfish as pets. I can tell as you would consider getting supplies or possibly a larger tank to care for your pets.

Some things to know since you are here for information.

There is a link in my signature to learn the basics of fish keeping.

Sometimes people get rid of tanks for free when they are moving. Sending messages to people (CL) with large tanks with the comment I can offer you $xx.00 and pick it up to get it out of your way if you have to move and haven't sold it yet.

You can do many water changes (pwc) and never buy a filter only if you are willing to change A LOT of water.

Add a second filter pad to your filter if you have one. This will allow (BB) beneficial bacteria to grow numerous as possible because of lots of extra surfaces to grow on.

Petco will check your water for free. So you can take a cup of water in a container/bag and have it tested. Have them write down the test results
Ammonia
NitrIte
NitrAte
pH
General Hardness (GH)
KH carbonite hardness (doubt they test that)

Anything they test for.

Buy the largest size Prime water conditioner you can afford or 16 oz. You will need it. Even if it is for keeping minnows it will mean you will keep your baitfish longer.

If you do not have a cycled tank you can expect your fish to suffer up to death if you don't religiously do pwc.

You might see red veins in their fins and they can get what look like bruises. They will die if not cared for properly. They can get Ammonia or Nitrate Poisoning.

If you appeciate catfish, then please consider these fishes lives important enough to contine your research and care (effort) to keep them healthy as possible.

Take care not to over feed as that is a huge cause of ammonia in tanks. As is over stocking.

There are really cool Plecos which get only ~4inches long and are much better suited to a "smaller" tank 29G+ and I would return the Pleco if possible. He is not right for any tank less than ~75G more like a 125G+.

There are others called Clown Plecos and Pit Bull Plecos which stay around 4". But minimum tank sizes are 20G.

There are Otocinclus cats which are great at cleaning the tank plants. But need a stable mature tank. 2"

Learning more and having the correct testing and tools like an over sized filter will help you be successful.

If you are going to buy a filter, get one that will cycle through ~4x the number of gallons in the tank as the minimum size to get. For dirtier fish like large plecos or Goldfish or large catfish - up to 10x the size filter GPH gallons per hour.

For example a 50G tank minimun filter of 200 gallons per hour. An AquaClear 110 will filter up to 300 GPH (up to 500GPH a canister filter) This large capacity is so that there is a large area for BB to grow and clean more water better. Not a gimmick.

As for stuff to change the pH and other things, stuff like Ph increaser and decreaser aka pH up or Ph down are difficult to keep regulated and it is better for your fish to be in the kind of water you have out of the tap. Changing water chemistry and being able to keep it stable are difficult things to do even for an experienced water/fish keeper.

Seachem Purigen is an item worth investing in. Helps you to keep good levels with regular maintanence.

Do you have a filter?

The world of catfish keeping is vast!!! Bottom fish are one of my favorites.

 

[ceekay]

I separated the minnows and now my tank is as right as a tank can get. I have a newbie intro post with more details, suffice to say that the minnow idea is scrapped and now I have a catfish idea that is going (forgive the pun) absolutely swimmingly! I've got just about everything I need, including the level test and correction supplies and even a special cat-scooper (it's actually a kitty litter scoop) so I can safely catch the cats if need be; Petco loves me after last week, and I'm pretty sure they learned a LOT more about Pictus rearing than they knew prior to my involvement...

And I most definitely need a bigger tank... I'm absolutely convinced of that now. Going to try not to bite the bullet on a 29, but I may have to if Petco doesn't want to do another sale.


- CK

 

[ImACoolguy]

May as well just go with a 40 breeder. Plenty of room and not as tall as some 29-30 gallon tanks.

Pictus also like live plants if you want to try your hand at that


Caleb

 

[Autumnsky]

I vote 40G breeder. The fish are awesome and worth the time to do it right. They are awesome little guys!

Really, people get rid of 55G and others all the time...

 

[ceekay]

They're fine in the 10 for now, but I do need a bigger tank.

Anyways, I have a bunch of seaweed (anacharis) in the tank, as well as three small Kyoto grasses. I've been told Kyoto don't like to be fully submerged all the time, but with Loki's constant rooting and swimming under, they get their time on the surface... Plus, they were only a couple bucks for three of 'em... If they drown, I pull them and get new ones.

And yes, I know people get rid of 55's all the time; I got rid of mine (used it for a bearded dragon) a few years ago, actually... :\

Still, I don't have the finances at the moment or the space to set a tank that large, so it has to wait...


- CK