Please help! My fishies are ill!

[Donna]

My fishies have been sick since just after i bought them. I have been doing partial water changes every two days for the past couple of weeks and taking samples to be analized, but more and more wounds keep appearing on my little fishies. they have been growing strange things too and i'm quite worried about them. i have been treating them with an anti-fungal/bacterial treatment.

is it a case of keep treating and be patient or can anyone identify this as something else entirely?

any help is much apreciated.

 

[melosu58]

Moving to the unhealthy sick fish forum in the FW forums.

 

[jsoong]

We need more info:
tank size & inhabitants, size.
exact parameters of the water.
how much water change you are doing.

Off hand, I would guess that this is a newly setup tank & is cycling. You need to read up on the nitrogen cycle (head over to the articles section) so you know what you are dealing with. You need to be able to maintain good water conditions during the process or the fishies will get into trouble. <And meds don't help if the water is messed up!>

The picture shows a forked worm stuck on the dorsal fin. That appears to be an anchor worm. the other sore at the base of the tail may well be a developing worm as well. Unfortunately, once you see that on a fish, the eggs are all over your tank so all the fish are at risk. You will need to treat with Dimilin. You may try to remove the worm with tweezers if possible, although that would be difficult in a small fish without sedation/anesthesia.

Eg:
http://www.enkoi.com/prod134.html
http://www.pondcare.net/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=2

 

[Donna]

Thankyou

thanks for your response, you've given the most logical answer yet, I've been to several petstores and aquariums for advice and this seems to have produced a good answer. i've googled achor worm and there was a picture almost identical! now i know how to treat this and i'm so grateful to you for your help.! Thanks again.

on the whole 'need more info' - it's a 42 litre tank, with two fantail oranda's. 25% water changes occur every two days with a gravel syphon. i'm using a nutrafin aqua plus water conditioner solution,and adding a weekly dose of nutrafin cycle suppliment to boost the biological conditions for ammonia and nitrite elimination. the tank was set up and running with a rena air filstar iv for a week before adding fish and i haven't added any more since these fishie looked ill. as for feeding i made a bit of an error in the beginning as my research said feed as much as will be eaten in 2-3 minutes but these fish just kept eating!!! they are now down to a flake of food each on day one, followed by a 20 minute munch on cucumber on day two, then a frozen cube of bloodworms on day three, followed by a fast day for day four. then back to day one. (though this week there may be a fish rebellion as i'm laying off the cucumber treat for a while!! they seriously go mad for it and attck my fingers when i try to take it out!!)

incidentally i managed to carefully capture the orange fish with the dorsal fin worm and it was very calm whilst i tried to remove the worm with tweezers. i didn't want to stress the fish too much and so eventually snipped the worms exoskelleton open with flat bladed tweezers and released the fish. the other fish quickly devoured the exposed worm!! was that healthy?! (she's been trying to nibble it of her friend for a while now, with no success.) the fish seems much happier today and the worm remains are quickly vanishing. please advise on wheter or not i did the right thing.

thanks again
Donna

 

[jsoong]

It is good you got the worm out! I don't think it would be injurious to the fish if it devours the worm. That forked worm is a female, so likely there will be eggs in the tank that can re-infect the fish. Most will treat with Dimilin to eradicate the eggs & immature worms from the tank.

42 l with 2 small fantails is doable, although that is considered a small setup for goldies. This means more work in keeping the water parameters stable. What you are doing in terms of water change is OK, although you might need to increase the amount, depending on the levels. During cycling, it is not unusual to need to do 50% or more daily .... The way to tell is to test the water daily & try to maintain ammonia & nitrites under 0.5 (0.25 is even better). I did my original cycling in a 10 gal with 2 fantails as well, & it took me 8+ weeks of daily water changes, but eventually, the tank cycled & I was able to get down to weekly 50%. With my bigger tank, it is much easier to manage the water conditions. <I can go up to a month without any parameters going out of wack, but I tend to clean every 1-2 weeks.>

 

[Donna]

I couldn't get hold of any Dimilin, for that I'm going to have to trek quite a long way. however, my local store gave me some aquarium salt for free since they think the infection was on the fish at time of sale. They seem to think this will work although it says nothing on the pack. I trust your advice above all at the moment.

quick question, how exactly do you clean a tank once it's 'cycled'? in amongst the contradicting advice i get everywhere else, they say not to take the fish out!!! how can that be possible?! also i think i have an annoying filter, it says to change the filter wool every month, (not until it has cycled, wash-outs will do)but surely this would be getting rid of the beneficial bacteria. oh goodness, when did keeping fish become so difficult?! my stepsister used to have three goldies in a tiny tank that NEVER got cleaned out until you couldn't see the fish through the green water....they lived 8+ years (i'm sure i remember 15 years for some reason but my brain's not that good!)

 

[JustOneMore20]

The only time you want to really clean the tank is if you have a disease that kills the fish and you don't want it to stay in the tank. Otherwise, just do weekly water changes (or more often in your tank, since space is kinda tight) with gravel vacuuming. You don't want to take the fish out and do a thorough cleaning for sure.

Yes, changing the filter material completely would do away with some bacteria. I suggest you just rinse the material in some tank water (like from a water change) just to get it a bit cleaner. The old tank water will help keep bacteria on it.

 

[kangster]

does the medicine kill only say the bacteria thats causing the problem or other bacterias like nitrosomers and nitrobacters?
i say the cure for all the sick fish is more pwcs
clean water is the key...or maybe not...

 

[Donna]

Wahey!!! the worms are dropping off! the aquariaum salt must be working. fishies a lot happier today, (went back to destroying the plants in protest of not being fed today!)

even when the tank has cycled, would it be good housekeeping to continue doing 25% changes every few days? the fish don't seem to mind it, they're quite curious about the gravel hoover i think, they don't swim away from it! It's difficult to get personal with fish like you can with furry pets and hugs, so the cleaning feels quite theraputic as i chat away to my fishies.

P.S. yes, I am a little insane, the scary news is that i have a daughter too. who knows what she has to put up with?!!!

 

[jsoong]

Salt is an alternative to meds, although according to Dr. Johnson at Koivet, it only inhibits the worm's reproduction and not kill it, so is not 100% effective. But if it is working for you, stick with it.

One thing about plants & salt ... most plants will not tolerate more than 0.1% salt, so you might need to remove them, esp. if signs of wilting/drooping. OTOH, depending on what you have, the goldies may devour them anyway, so it won't make much difference!

Regarding pwc after tank is cycled: There is no such thing as too much water change .... fish loves fresh water. My routine is to clean off the tank glass with an algae scrubber <And I leave the algae in the tank, as the goldies just devours all the algae bits as I scrape them off>. Follow that with a gravel vac/water change. No need to take the fish out & do a total clean. <That is a total teardown, only needed for disease, or if the tank had been totaly neglected for a long time.>

I don't change the filter media at all. All I do is rinse it in a bit of old tank water to get rid of most of the gunk & re-use. Most people reuse the filter media until it is falling apart, at which point it is replaced. When replacing media, only replace 1/2 at a time. Wait a month or 2 to replace the other half. This gives time for the bacteria to colonize the new media from the old, so you avoid getting rid of your biofilter at the change.

And you CAN get personal & play with your fishies! I hand feed my goldies (try some chopped up shrimp or peas), so they come to me during feeding time, and will hover around my hand & nibble on my fingers when I do tank cleaning. They will also play games like follow your finger on the tank glass. Some people even pet their fish <clean wet hands, gently>.

 

[martiniduck]

I am sorry to interrupt this, but how do you change 1/2 of the media. The external filter I have has only one cartridge in it. How can I change 1/2? I am pretty new to this. My last tank, I had was over 15 years ago and I would change the cartridge every month. I never cycled, never tested, only did water changes when the water got dirty. I also experienced lots of dead fish. I hope your fish are better.

 

[jsoong]

but how do you change 1/2 of the media.

It depends on your filter. Most HOB's I've seen have slots for 2 filter cartridges, so it is a simple thing to change one of the 2. For the A/C's, you can also run a coarse sponge instead of a cartridge, in that case you either buy 2 smaller sponges or cut the big one in half. If your filter has room for only one cartridge, you can try to use matching Aquaclear sponges instead.

If all else fails & you must change all of the media in the filter, my suggestion is to take the old media, squeeze out all the "gunk" onto your new media, then put it in a mesh bag & suspend it in the tank for a week or 2. It would look ugly, but would minimize the loss of your bio-filter.

 

[martiniduck]

Thanks.

 

[Donna]

Just curious, my filter only has one sponge too and i doubted it's filtering abilities in the beginning due to a large space around the sponge, (square space, round sponge) so i added some filter wool around the sponge to ensure the water was definately being sucked through some material. would that be ok if i have to change the filter sponge monthly to leave to wool in? would it have the same effect as you've described above, essentially making one sponge into two parts?

 

[meegosh]

Donna, is your filter a HOB style? If so, you could probably get away with ditching the sponge all together and just using some polyfiber. I have been using the same bag of polyfiber for over a year. Best $5 I ever spent, also, the only $5 I've ever spent at Joann Fabrics. LOL.

 

[Donna]

Now you're getting technical!! It's a rena filstar vi (me thinks) other than that i'm pretty clueless. it was so much easier when i had a pond!!!

 

[jsoong]

You can certainly substitute filter wool for the pre-made filter pads. Another option is to get bulk filter sponge, <My lfs sells blocks of 1 foot or so in size.> Then you can cut the sponge to fit your filter exactly. In either case, you can change part of the media easily.

<And having part wool/part sponge like yours will work too.>

 

[Donna]

just thought i'd update this since it's been a long while. thought i'd let people know that my fishies made a complete recovery and we now have three more fantails along with the original two. the salt inhibited the worms reproductive cycle and eventually all died out and i kept adding the salt even for a few weeks after they'd vanished just to be sure. i don't use salt now as it kills my plants. despite the rough handling my two had with me clipping the worms to kil them, they seem to have grown closer to me! they love interaction and one even likes to have her belly gently stroked! (that's nuts to say, even for me!!!) so all's well thanks to everyones help and advice. much love from me and the fishies!

 

[kangster]

glad to hear that everybody is doing well