Please help with my german blue rams

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Melissa81407

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
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Mar 21, 2017
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I have a German blue ram who is young and yesterday I noticed he was gasping for breath and his gills looked like they were sticking out. Today he looks worse still gasping for breath one side of his gills looks like it is starting to deteriorate. My ammonia nitrite and nitrate levels are all 0. It's a 55 gallon tank with 5 super young small angels 4 zebra loaches two German blue rams and one pleco. I was thinking maybe gill fluke or bacterial gill infection I've never seen this before in my fish
 
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Do you have a separate tank to move him to? If so I would do that and start treating with either Seachem Paraguard or API general cure until you can better identify what is wrong with him. Are his gills really red? Any spots or injury that you can see?
 
Thank you so much for your response. I used to have a Corentine tank but I have a baby turtle in there at the moment. His gills do look red to me. Should I go grab another tank from pet smart and get it set up for him? I have quick start I could put in to get it cycled. Should I be worried about my other fish getting this?
 
Please help!!!

Petco is still having their $1/gallon sale on tanks under like 29 gallons I believe, so try there first if you need to buy another. The larger tanks have a sale too like 50% off.
 
Petco is still having their $1/gallon sale on tanks under like 29 gallons I believe, so try there first if you need to buy another. The larger tanks have a sale too like 50% off.



I was just about to head there and pick up a 20 gallon
 
Please help!!!

A couple questions concerning your set up, what are your stats on pH and hardness? Is your tank planted? And if so, what regimen do you use to support the plants? Fertilizer, CO2, etc? Have you made any significant changes to the tank lately like an extra large water change or change in equipment or new decor? How long has that ram been in the tank? Were any of those fish added really recently? How long has the tank been set up? Is there any chance that water from the turtle's tank could have gotten into the tank with your ram?
 
My ph is 7.4 KH is 80 and GH is 30. My tank is planted I use flourish, flourish excel and flourish iron. No CO2, three days a did a 50% water change because the wood I put in there a month ago is still leaching color and I was trying to get some of the color out of the tank. I add the two rams and 4 loaches about a week ago from a really reputable fish store. Not a pet store. The tank has been set up for several months cycles for about two weeks before I add any fish to begin with. I use the same siphon for all my tanks so yes it is possible very small amounts of water from the turtle tank might have gotten into the tank. Thank you for your response
 
Please help!!!

Thanks for the info, I forgot one last thing to ask what your temperature is!

The pH is a touch on the high side for those South American fish but still reasonable. I think your fish will be happier if you lower it more towards 6.0-6.5 but that's probably not the cause of the ram's problem.

The large water change might have stressed out the fish enough to make it susceptible to an infection or something carried over from the turtle tank. Turtles are dirty things and the bacteria might have invaded the fish tank, just needing the right time to make a fish sick when it got stressed and it's immune system was compromised. If that was the case, you might as well try treating the whole tank for bacteria. No point in quarantining the ram and getting it healthy again, only to stick it back in an infected tank.

The driftwood tannins are actually very beneficial for fish like rams and angels and are part of their natural habitat. The only reason to remove them would be for aesthetic reasons. While I'm sure the driftwood has become a home for lots of good bacteria, it would be better for you to just take it out and boil the wood or let it soak in its own container so you don't cause a big disruption like that to the tank. Big water changes are hard on your plants and can stress your fish. You cause more harm than good by making such a huge change for purely cosmetic reasons. Big water changes always come with risks and negative consequences for the tank, they should really only be done when the benefit outweighs the drawbacks (and with planted tanks, you have extra drawbacks to consider.) Supplementing with plant fertilizers alone won't replace the natural balance between fish waste and plant usage. Treat the wood separately, then put it back in your tank.

That said, I personally highly recommend leaving the tannins in your tank, if not supplementing more by adding almond leaves or magnolia leaves. It looks weird at first, but you get used to it and fish like that love it! There are some videos on YouTube of people who filmed the natural habitats of South American fish like the rams and angels and they came away saying one of the mistakes made in the hobby is trying to keep fish like that in pristine, crystal clear tanks. The tannins, leaf debris, driftwood, all of that is what those fish are used to and thrive in, not a pretty tank fully of crystal clear water. Those fish come from tropical forest rivers that have all sorts of stuff falling in. Clean is totally alien for them.

If you just can't stand the look of the tannins, treat the driftwood outside of the tank (boil, soak in a container) or replace it with fake driftwood. PetSmart has a variety of fake driftwood pieces, some of which are quite large and would work in a 55 gallon. They look pretty realistic and would obviously be tannin-free.

If you do remove the real driftwood (and as you remove tannins,) you'll need to closely monitor the pH. The tannins lower pH and help create a natural buffer, but once you lose that you don't have much room for your pH to raise before your fish and plants will suffer for it. Plus quick swings in pH are very bad for the tank ecosystem, even if the pH remains within the "safe" range for the tank inhabitants. Slow changes are safe changes, fast changes are deadly.

A great website for pro-tannin tanks is Tannin Aquatics (www.tanninaquatics.com) which has a good variety of products for promoting tannins in addition to the ubiquitous almond leaves.
 
50% water change isn't going to be *that* stressful.

I would definitely look at the turtle first. Treat the whole tank for parasites and buy a second siphon just for the turtle.
 
50% can have a big impact on the plants and pH, which has a trickle down effect. It's not just about a 50% water change in general, it's about a 50% water change in THAT system with Rams who are very sensitive to changes in water quality and parameters.
 
I agree although it depends on the tank. If you change water 50% weekly and the tank is relatively clean with a small biological loading the water shouldn't alter that much in theory.

What you say about the biological state of the tank in general gets an A+ from me. It is of major importance that THAT balance is not upset.
 
Hmm. I probably do a 50% change every month. If anything, it seemed to improve conditions. My biggest tank is 29 gallons, though, so I guess it could be a different situation with a larger tank.

I'm of the practice of (mostly) letting the water do its own thing, so tap doesn't change too much from tap week to week.

Although planted tanks without CO2 can have a gradual rise in pH as the gas is deleted from the water.

It is true that rams are especially sensitive.
 
Hmm. I probably do a 50% change every month. If anything, it seemed to improve conditions. My biggest tank is 29 gallons, though, so I guess it could be a different situation with a larger tank.

I'm of the practice of (mostly) letting the water do its own thing, so tap doesn't change too much from tap week to week.

Although planted tanks without CO2 can have a gradual rise in pH as the gas is deleted from the water.

It is true that rams are especially sensitive.


I don't think it's the pH that's the issue. In my opinion it is the dissolved solids or possible municipality fluctuations that can be detrimental. At least in my experience. Especially live bearing fish from Harder waters such as swordtails. The don't seem to be able to handle TDS changes well and over time you get dropsy and swim bladder issues more frequently.

I could and have changed 90% with my current stock which includes shrimp, ottos, barbs and rasbora. They couldn't care less.
 
Awesome information from everyone thank you. It's a pretty large piece of driftwood and it helps keep my water ph down I have 8.0 from the tap and 7.4 in the tank. So I'll keep it and get used to the tannen color. I know 7.4 is a little high for the fish but I have been told putting ph down chemicals in will make the ph to unstable so I leave it and the fish seem to be ok with it. I have medication for parasites that I would like to try first with the ram but I have 4 loaches in the tank and because they do not have scales im afraid that medication will hurt them. I just purchased a 20 gallon long tank that I was going to get running with quick start and put him in there and start the medication. Do you guys think that is a good idea or should I try something else. In leaning toward it being a parasite more then bacterial because my water quality is always really good, do you think that could be true. Thank you
 
Oh yeah and my temp is 78.6 though it was running about 80 so I've been slowly being it down
 
Oh also, sometimes it's worse to move a ram to quarantine just because the change can be so stressful.

What parasite medication do you have? There are some that are safe for scaleless fish.

I agree on not using artificial pH buffers.
 
Ok i called my lfs and asked then if the stuff I purchased from them for ick might help and not hurt my scalded fish they said it would so I just dosed the tank and I'm hoping for the best. The medication I'm using is for the treatment of external protozoan, fungal disease and ich.
 
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