Possible gill flukes?

[anibis]

I picked up 2 platys a week ago. When I was observing the one I wanted at the lfs, I saw her fins were clamped *some* of the time. She was active, so I got her anyways as she was unique, I should've known better. Once I got her home and in my tank she never came around, wouldn't eat, sitting at the bottom with her fins clamped most of the time. On Monday I saw a white dot on her nose. I went out and bought a cheapo 5g and put her in it with an old aqua tech filter, and treated with triple-sulfa (all I had). The white dot spread throughout the day. The next morning her mouth was covered in it, and she was dead shortly thereafter. She never had more than the white dot in my big tank, so hopefully I caught it in time.

So then I noticed the micky mouse platy I got at the same time flashing on my anubias occasionally, it looked like she was trying to scratch her gills. She would also head to the surface every so often and gasp. I also noticed my molly breathing heavily. I changed 50% of the water, and added aquarium salt (1tbs/5gal). The molly's breathing normalized, but the platy continued to do the flashing/gasping at the surface on occasion. I performed daily 50% water changes over the next few days and hoped it would clear out.

Then today I noticed my moon platy breathing heavy, lethargic, and swimming very erratically. She would dart all crazy like, ramming into decorations and the glass, then just sit still at the surface.

I went out and picked up some API General Cure. Performed another 50% water change, then added it. I also put an airstone in. Within a few hours all the fish were acting normal again, although the breathing is still rapid on the one platy. I haven't seen the micky mouse platy flash on the plant, nor gasp at the surface.

The fish have always eaten well, remained active, and haven't had clamped fins. On my original platy/molly I have noticed white stringy feces rarely, most of the time it's normal. They have been doing this for the 2 months I've owned them. I also have a handful of fry in the tank who seem to be doing fine.

So after that novel, any thoughts?

29g, Fluval C3+Cascade 100 hob's. Aqueon versa-top mostly sealed up (cats), not sure how much this negatively affects o2 exchange?
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0 (so many water changes, my tank is cycled)

 

[Berylla]

I picked up 2 platys a week ago. When I was observing one at the lfs, I saw her fins were clamped *some* of the time. I got her anyways as she was unique, I should've known better. Once I got her home and in my tank she never came around, wouldn't eat, sitting at the bottom with her fins clamped most of the time. On Monday I saw a white dot on her nose. I went out and bought a cheapo 5g and put her in it with an old aqua tech filter, and treated with triple-sulfa (all I had). The white dot spread throughout the day. The next morning her mouth was covered in it, and she was dead shortly thereafter. She never had more than the white dot in my big tank, so hopefully I caught it in time.

So then I noticed the micky mouse platy I got flashing on my anubias occasionally, it looked like she was trying to scratch her gills. She would also head to the surface every so often and gasp. I also noticed my molly breathing heavily. I changed 50% of the water, and added aquarium salt (1tbs/5gal). The molly's breathing normalized, but the platy continued to do the flashing/gasping at the surface on occasion. I performed daily 50% water changes over the next few days and hoped it would clear out.

Then today I noticed my moon platy breathing heavy, lethargic, and swimming very erratically. She would dart all crazy like, ramming into decorations and the glass, then just sit still at the surface.

I went out and picked up some API General Cure. Performed another 50% water change, then added it. I also put an airstone in. Within a few hours all the fish were acting normal again, although the breathing is still rapid on the one platy. I haven't seen the micky mouse platy flash on the plant, nor gasp at the surface.

The fish have always eaten well, remained active, and haven't had clamped fins. On my original platy/molly I have noticed white stringy feces rarely, most of the time it's normal. They have been doing this for the 2 months I've owned them.

So after that novel, any thoughts?

Flukes are the hardest to diagnose without a scraping and putting it under the microscope. Flashing and breathing harder could mean anything.

When I see something "funny" in my tank, I do a massive water change (50% or more) every day. Most of the time, the fish spring back to normal.

If all the fish start to flash and you do not have access to a good stereo microscope, then I suggest you treat with quick cure which has formalin in it. It is easily available in most pet stores.

If it is flukes, they are very difficult to eradicate from a tank. You will need to retreat the tank every 3 weeks to get all the babies. Sterilize with bleach all your equipment too because you can reinfect your tank again and again. If you use a python, only use it to take water out of your tank and get another one to refill. The one that you drain the tank, spray the outside and the inside mouth piece with bleach solution of 1:3 with water, then rinse well and let dry.

 

[anibis]

Yeah I've done 50% pwc's for the past 4 days, along with extensive gravel vacuuming.

I broke a thermometer (fish thermometer) a few weeks ago, a bunch of the little balls fell in the tank. I thought I got most of them out, but when I was vacuuming last night I moved the gravel aside in the area where they fell, and found a bunch of rusting little balls. I got most of them out, I'm sure a few still remain though. All of the rust n crap that was stuck under the gravel got into the water column.

Could the lead from the balls have caused any of this?

When I saw my moon platy darting around crashing into everything I figured I should medicate. It seemed like parasites were the best fit, whether it's flukes or something else I'm not sure. It's so hard to figure out what's wrong when you can't see it.

From what I've read, if it is flukes, it's going to be a pain to rid my tank of them. Stupid eggs.

I've bought 6 fish since my return to the hobby. Both bettas I got were sick, one died, other is probably going to die. The one platy was sick and died. Now there's something wrong with the other 3. So, 100% of the fish I've gotten had/has something wrong with them.

If these fish die, I'll tear the tank down, sterilize everything, and start over with a fishless cycle.

I'm frustrated to say the least.

 

[Berylla]

Yeah I've done 50% pwc's for the past 4 days, along with extensive gravel vacuuming.

I broke a thermometer (fish thermometer) a few weeks ago, a bunch of the little balls fell in the tank. I thought I got most of them out, but when I was vacuuming last night I moved the gravel aside in the area where they fell, and found a bunch of rusting little balls. I got most of them out, I'm sure a few still remain though. All of the rust n crap that was stuck under the gravel got into the water column.

Could the lead from the balls have caused any of this?

When I saw my moon platy darting around crashing into everything I figured I should medicate. It seemed like parasites were the best fit, whether it's flukes or something else I'm not sure. It's so hard to figure out what's wrong when you can't see it.

From what I've read, if it is flukes, it's going to be a pain to rid my tank of them. Stupid eggs.

I've bought 6 fish since my return to the hobby. Both bettas I got were sick, one died, other is probably going to die. The one platy was sick and died. Now there's something wrong with the other 3. So, 100% of the fish I've gotten had/has something wrong with them.

If these fish die, I'll tear the tank down, sterilize everything, and start over with a fishless cycle.

I'm frustrated to say the least.

I'm sorry that you've had such bad luck with fish. Quarantine for at least two week in a 5 to 10 gallon tank is the best prevention of infecting your tank.

If you decide to break down your tank, bleach is the only thing that kills flukes. Not even potassium permanganate will kill those nasties. Everything needs to be soaked in bleach of 1:3 for 10 minutes, then rinsed like crazy, then soak in a water with lots of Prime.

 

[anibis]

The only way to know for sure that it's flukes is to do a scrape and examine it under a microscope. So how will I even know?

The last time I kept fish was in the 90s, I bought fish from the same store (local chain) I go to now. I don't remember having any disease issues other than the occasional ich. Have diseases gotten that much more prevalent in the past 20 years? You wonder how they stay in business if others have had the same luck as myself.

I've sterilized my betta tank, my 5g, and all my tools with bleach, I think I have the hang of that now lol. Although I used a 10% bleach solution, is that too low? After my first betta died I was paranoid about cross contamination and made a complete set of maintenance tools for each tank, so hopefully whats in my main tank won't get in my betta tank. I wash my hands before/after working on each tank too.

Yeah I'm gonna get a 10g QT tank before I add anymore fish. I won't be adding any for at least a month, so that gives me time to save up the funds to get one setup.

 

[Berylla]

The only way to know for sure that it's flukes is to do a scrape and examine it under a microscope. So how will I even know?

The last time I kept fish was in the 90s, I bought fish from the same store (local chain) I go to now. I don't remember having any disease issues other than the occasional ich. Have diseases gotten that much more prevalent in the past 20 years? You wonder how they stay in business if others have had the same luck as myself.

I've sterilized my betta tank, my 5g, and all my tools with bleach, I think I have the hang of that now lol. Although I used a 10% bleach solution, is that too low? After my first betta died I was paranoid about cross contamination and made a complete set of maintenance tools for each tank, so hopefully whats in my main tank won't get in my betta tank. I wash my hands before/after working on each tank too.

Yeah I'm gonna get a 10g QT tank before I add anymore fish. I won't be adding any for at least a month, so that gives me time to save up the funds to get one setup.

10% is too low for proper sterilization for flukes. You need to kill the eggs too. I looked it up and a ratio of 1:5 to spray down your tank and hoses and nets. Most uses suggest 10% is fine but flukes are very strong.

Bleach (from wiki)


Chlorine bleach is another accepted liquid sterilizing agent. Household bleach consists of 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. It is usually diluted to 1/10 immediately before use; however to kill Mycobacterium tuberculosis it should be diluted only 1/5, and 1/2.5 (1 part bleach and 1.5 parts water) to inactivate prions. The dilution factor must take into account the volume of any liquid waste that it is being used to sterilize.[24] Bleach will kill many organisms immediately, but for full sterilization it should be allowed to react for 20 minutes. Bleach will kill many, but not all spores. It is also highly corrosive.

 

[anibis]

Ok so I may have jumped the gun thinking it was flukes.

After my fish seemed better yesterday, the moon platy is back to darting around, albeit not as bad as yesterday. She is also covered in a white mucus-like film, mostly on her sides. I believe she's been looking like this for some time as I didn't notice any sudden change in appearance. I really noticed the difference after looking at her brothers and sisters at the lfs today.

I haven't seen my other platy flicking on my plant at all. All fish are still eating normally, not hiding, nor have clinched fins.

I think the water change probably perked her up more than the API General Cure.

So I bought AP Quick Cure, and Mardel Coppersafe. I haven't put either in the tank yet. Where should I go from here?

 

[Berylla]

Ok so I may have jumped the gun thinking it was flukes.

After my fish seemed better yesterday, the moon platy is back to darting around, albeit not as bad as yesterday. She is also covered in a white mucus-like film, mostly on her sides. I believe she's been looking like this for some time as I didn't notice any sudden change in appearance. I really noticed the difference after looking at her brothers and sisters at the lfs today.

I haven't seen my other platy flicking on my plant at all. All fish are still eating normally, not hiding, nor have clinched fins.

I think the water change probably perked her up more than the API General Cure.

So I bought AP Quick Cure, and Mardel Coppersafe. I haven't put either in the tank yet. Where should I go from here?

Neither! It looks like your fish have a bacterial infection, not parasites. Keep changing the water 50% every day, vacuum substrate, clean out your filters (rinse media in bucket of tank water, wipe down sides of filter). Keep the water pristine for the next 5 days. If the infection gets worse, that's when you can treat. Take the coppersafe back. That stuff is toxic and the copper takes a long time to leave the tank.

 

[anibis]

If I do a pwc tonight, that's 5 days in a row of 50% changes. I vacuumed every time except last night. I knew it could be bacterial, I guess I was just hoping it was parasitic. I just spent 6 weeks doing daily pwc's to get my tank cycled and keep my fish happy. If I have to resort to antibiotics I'm back to square one. Blah.

 

[Berylla]

If I do a pwc tonight, that's 5 days in a row of 50% changes. I vacuumed every time except last night. I knew it could be bacterial, I guess I was just hoping it was parasitic. I just spent 6 weeks doing daily pwc's to get my tank cycled and keep my fish happy. If I have to resort to antibiotics I'm back to square one. Blah.

Exactly, so don't use until necessary and then only in a QT tank. Most surface infection are due to poor water quality. If you have been overfeeding, even with regular water changes, there will be more bacteria in the tank due to more fish poop.

 

[anibis]

I did a 50% (a little more) and vacuumed the crap outta the gravel. Fish all seem happy, although I'm a bit worried as the tank cooled down by 2 degrees during the maintenance. Added a new cartridge to my Cascade (new carbon to get the general cure out), and replaced the pad on my C3. Biological filtration should still be adequate as the C3 has C-Nodes, and the Cascade has a biological filter in front of the cartridge. Both needed replaced, but I wanted to make sure bb grew in the C3 as it's only a month old.

I just can't believe how the fish been able to survive for 6+ weeks with whatever it has. The new fish that died a few days after I got her had columnaris on her mouth. It went from a speck on her nose, to having her mouth covered and death in 24 hours.

Do you think the fish who died got the bacterial mouth infection from my moon platy who still lives?

Then there's the molly, who has been with the moon platy since day one, and is also doing alright. Only symptom he has had is rapid gilling, which only showed up after my tank had cycled and I went 5 days without a pwc. Once I changed the water, he was fine.

Maybe since I was cycling and doing daily water changes that has helped the fish live with the infection?

I don't know. I got back into keeping fish to have something to keep my mind off work at home. It has certainly done that, but has only added to my stress load.

 

[Berylla]

I did a 50% (a little more) and vacuumed the crap outta the gravel. Fish all seem happy, although I'm a bit worried as the tank cooled down by 2 degrees during the maintenance. Added a new cartridge to my Cascade (new carbon to get the general cure out), and replaced the pad on my C3. Biological filtration should still be adequate as the C3 has C-Nodes, and the Cascade has a biological filter in front of the cartridge. Both needed replaced, but I wanted to make sure bb grew in the C3 as it's only a month old.

I just can't believe how the fish been able to survive for 6+ weeks with whatever it has. The new fish that died a few days after I got her had columnaris on her mouth. It went from a speck on her nose, to having her mouth covered and death in 24 hours.

Do you think the fish who died got the bacterial mouth infection from my moon platy who still lives?

Then there's the molly, who has been with the moon platy since day one, and is also doing alright. Only symptom he has had is rapid gilling, which only showed up after my tank had cycled and I went 5 days without a pwc. Once I changed the water, he was fine.

Maybe since I was cycling and doing daily water changes that has helped the fish live with the infection?

I don't know. I got back into keeping fish to have something to keep my mind off work at home. It has certainly done that, but has only added to my stress load.

It's stressful when your fish aren't well, but it will pass. Just keep up with the daily water changes. Temperature ranges of 5 degrees is not a problem with fish. I forgot to turn the heater after maintenance and my discus did not die at 65 degrees. His usual temperature is 80.

Update us tomorrow regarding the platy.

 

[anibis]

Today the molly looked like he was trying to clear his gills before I performed a pwc, it went away after. He's gotten like this several times recently, each time a pwc cleared it up. The panda (moon as I was calling her) platy looks the same physically, same white film, but there was no darting before today's pwc unlike the previous two days. I haven't seen the micky mouse platy flash off my anubias since Friday.

All fish are still active, eating well, fins out. I couldn't find any disease that would cause these symptoms for an extended period of time. If it was velvet it would progress rapidly. Even the slow moving columnaris will kill a fish in 2 weeks. So I'm not sure whats going on. I've vacuumed the crap out of the gravel the past 2 days, hopefully I'm getting whatever is causing this out so the fish can recover.

 

[Berylla]

Today the molly looked like he was trying to clear his gills before I performed a pwc, it went away after. He's gotten like this several times recently, each time a pwc cleared it up. The panda (moon as I was calling her) platy looks the same physically, same white film, but there was no darting before today's pwc unlike the previous two days. I haven't seen the micky mouse platy flash off my anubias since Friday.

All fish are still active, eating well, fins out. I couldn't find any disease that would cause these symptoms for an extended period of time. If it was velvet it would progress rapidly. Even the slow moving columnaris will kill a fish in 2 weeks. So I'm not sure whats going on. I've vacuumed the crap out of the gravel the past 2 days, hopefully I'm getting whatever is causing this out so the fish can recover.

A UV filter run at 100 GPH an hour can keep the pathogens down in your tank so that your fish can fight off what's afflicting them. For a 29G tank, you will need a 10W UV.

http://www.amazon.com/SunSun-JUP-23...upplies_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1N18RFG3VF2S3FS5ZH30

Its 1.5 feet long so you need to be aware of that. It's 13 watts but the pump is a bit fast at 210 GPH.