Potassium Permanganate

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coralbandit

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The more I read about potassium permanganate, the more I agree with you coralbandit. It is also great that it has an easy way to neutralize it if needed using H2O2.

Very useful post and something more people need to know about IMO.
 
I still have some from when you sent it to me bandit. And it is a good thing to have on hand. Since I treated my tank the one time I haven't had any columnaris symptoms again and that was months ago.
 
Looks like it should solve my issue with leeches/planeria or what ever the heck they are.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
This link is taken from one of the best columnaris links;


POTASSIUM PERMANGANATE KMnO4:


jungleclearwatertn.jpg
The permanganate ion is a strong oxidizing agent.
Potassium Permanganate is a strong oxidizer that when added to water will give a deep purple color that will slowly turn brown/yellow as it oxidizes. The more dissolved organics, the more quickly the change of color to brown/yellow which indicates the oxidation properties are mostly spent.

USE:

  • Being an oxidizer, Potassium Permanganate is useful for water clarification and odor elimination; often where a bacterial cloud is present.
    Potassium Permanganate should only be used in established cycled aquariums.

    Potassium Permanganate can be used to reduce dangerous high organic levels in freshwater ponds and aquariums, especially “Bacterial Blooms” (Grey cloudy tanks).
    It can be used as a special-purpose freshwater conditioner for ponds and aquariums, because of its ability to improve water quality by oxidation of excessive dissolved and suspended organics. The chronic presence of excessive dissolved organics in the water promotes the growth of potential disease-causing bacteria such as Aeromonas, and as well lower KH and pH.
    However it should be noted that initial oxidation produces Carbon Dioxide which will initially lower pH/KH and I recommend a water change a day after the use of Potassium Permanganate for the purpose of oxidation of organics in ponds or aquariums.
  • Probably the best use for Potassium Permanganate is for fish baths or swabbing infections caused by bacterium such as Columnaris.
    For these uses, a fish keeper would use in a bath at double recommended tank strength for 30 minutes.

    Product Resource: Potassium Permanganate

    Do NOT combine with Methylene Blue in baths.
    MB is a better choice where stress has occurred or ammonia and nitrite poisoning has occurred. Whereas Potassium Permanganate is the better choice for Flukes, external nematodes, Anchor worms, Columnaris or Aeromonas/Vibrio infections.
    HOWEVER, even the use for Columnaris and the other before mentioned "diseases', it should be noted that is the fish are weakened severely or if the fish is very sensitive fish (such as scaleless fish like Knife fish), Methylene Blue may still be the better choice even if less effective, as the oxidizing properties of Potassium Permanganate may be too much for these fish (1/2 strength may be another option).

    Please see this article for more about fish baths/dips:
    “How to Perform a Medicated Fish Bath or Dip”
  • Potassium Permanganate can be used as a plant dip for snails at double recommended tank strength for 10 -20 minutes. In the tank it can be used for Fluke treatment and is mildly effective for snail eradication (not a recommended snail removal method from my experience).
  • Potassium Permanganate is the best choice for a net dip, as it is both effective, yet not nearly as dangerous as other effective alternatives such as bleach if some accidentally finds its way into the aquarium.
    A second quick dip in water containing any chlorine removing water conditioner such as Start Right or Prime is suggested (not 100% required) to remove excess PP prior to use in the aquarium.
  • Potassium Permanganate is also an excellent “second choice” for direct (full strength) application to fish eye infections (cloudy eyes, “Fish Cataracts”).
    Hospital tank treatment with Erythromycin is also recommended.
    Silver Nitrate is the first choice for eye problems, however this product is nearly impossible to find and requires special handling and should be followed by Potassium Dichromate. The strong oxidizing properties of Potassium Permanganate makes it useful for some serious wounds where you want to “seal” the wound, such as a fish with a missing eye, but do NOT use on open 'bloody' wounds.
  • Another use is for mild Fluke (Trematode) infestations.
    Reference: “Trematodes & Nematodes in Fish”)

If preparing your own (dry) Potassium Permanganate treatment, use 2 ppm per liter of water for in tank (pond) treatments and up to 10 ppm per liter for 10 -30 minute baths.
For already prepared Potassium Permanganate (in liquid form) such as Jungle's Clear Water, use double the recommended normal tank dosage for a bath.

Product Source: Jungle Clear Water

Care must be exercised when using this product, whatever level dosage is used. The action of Potassium Permanganate proceed more rapidly under acidic water conditions and higher temperatures, while the action is less rapid at higher pH and water hardness.

Also do not combine with de-chlorinators as these products are reducers (usually container Sodium Thiosulfate or other reducers) that will immediately remove Potassium Permanganate since it is an oxidizer.
Please keep in mind that this is an oxidizer than can and will destroy beneficial bacteria, so use with care if you must treat a main display tank (which is why I prefer baths or hospital tanks).
An aquarist/Pond Keeper should also note that Potassium Permanganate suppresses photosynthesis in plants in the water, although this can be beneficial, especially in ponds with large amounts of decomposing organics as this will increase oxygen levels in the pond, particularly at night. In this process Potassium Permanganate reduces biological oxygen demand, and improves water quality and clarity.

In case of accidental overdose with Potassium Permanganate, a 2 to 3x dose of Prime in the tank will immediately remove this, or if a fish reacts adversely after swabbing a sore, lesion, etc. an immediate dip into water treated with Prime (or similar water conditioners such as Start Right, Amquel, Stress Coat, etc.) at 3 x strength will immediately stop the reaction.
 
:)
Will keep this in mind.
Still not sure why the LFS's where I live don't seem to know about columnaris.
Seems to occur enough that they should have some knowledge.
 
"Please keep in mind that this is an oxidizer than can and will destroy beneficial bacteria, so use with care if you must treat a main display tank (which is why I prefer baths or hospital tanks)."


Before treating my tank with Potassium Permanganate should I remove my bio-wheel to help save my beneficial bacteria? And if so, how long should I wait before I put it back in place?
 
Did you have any ammonia spikes with using the tetra lifeguard?

The ingredient (1-chloro-2, 2, 5, 5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone) is also an oxidiser.
 
Not that I remember, Delapool. I did do a water change after using it, though since I read that it wasn't "suitable for scaleless fish".
 
"Please keep in mind that this is an oxidizer than can and will destroy beneficial bacteria, so use with care if you must treat a main display tank (which is why I prefer baths or hospital tanks)."


Before treating my tank with Potassium Permanganate should I remove my bio-wheel to help save my beneficial bacteria? And if so, how long should I wait before I put it back in place?
There would be no harm in removing your bio while using.
Personally I don't and have had no issue but many of the links due mention removing the bio media.
 
Just running a test now on a tank to see if any impact on bio-media out of interest. Will update in about 12 hours although I guess all tanks are different. Will post how it goes though. In theory I have a 1 or 2ppm solution in there.
 
There would be no harm in removing your bio while using.
Personally I don't and have had no issue but many of the links due mention removing the bio media.

Ok, thank you so much for your help!!! This has been very helpful with my problem.

Delapool, it will be interesting to see how your test turns out!
 
Hmm, a little unexpected. The tank colour has gone back to normal from pinkish but I got an ammonia reading between 0.25 and 0.5.

However I then tested tap water and that read 0.25 (normally 0).

So I'm wondering on the test kit a little. Either way it does seem there is some ammonia in the dosed tank now, just not quite sure how much.

The dosed tank is bare bottom with a small HOB filter. Mystery snail still doing fine. Algae looks fine.

Plan to test ammonia in display tank and also in a bottle of distilled water later on today to check ammonia test just in case.
 
Interesting indeed.
I haven't felt the need to test for ammonia in some time........
The PP is known to kill snails so I would not expose your mystery too many more times?
In the same link as the killing snails is mentioned(skeptical aquarist link),
it mentions that in 1975 it was discovered that using pp at the recommended level of 2ppm did not cause an ammonia spike.
It also mentions slightly more then 2ppm will wipe out whatever it wants(possibly your BB).
I'll note I use this product without preparation of tank .
I leave wood,plants (and sub only in my 180g) in place during treatment and they in turn have a degrading effect on the strength of the PP as they use it also along with the dissolved organic compounds.
I think you were sleeping during test so you don't know how long it took to change from pink to clear?
I treated 2 of my BB ram tanks today and they both went yellow within 2 hours.
I neutralized with h2o2 and changed 50% and the water sparkles!
None of the rams were phased at all!
Tomorrow I PP the 180g .
I will test my nitrates first and then decide if I change water after treatment or not.
Probably be too late to check ammonia tomorrow on the ram tanks as lights are off in fishroom now.
I will check anyways though in the am.

Thanks D!
 
Interesting indeed.
I haven't felt the need to test for ammonia in some time........
The PP is known to kill snails so I would not expose your mystery too many more times?
In the same link as the killing snails is mentioned(skeptical aquarist link),
it mentions that in 1975 it was discovered that using pp at the recommended level of 2ppm did not cause an ammonia spike.
It also mentions slightly more then 2ppm will wipe out whatever it wants(possibly your BB).
I'll note I use this product without preparation of tank .
I leave wood,plants (and sub only in my 180g) in place during treatment and they in turn have a degrading effect on the strength of the PP as they use it also along with the dissolved organic compounds.
I think you were sleeping during test so you don't know how long it took to change from pink to clear?
I treated 2 of my BB ram tanks today and they both went yellow within 2 hours.
I neutralized with h2o2 and changed 50% and the water sparkles!
None of the rams were phased at all!
Tomorrow I PP the 180g .
I will test my nitrates first and then decide if I change water after treatment or not.
Probably be too late to check ammonia tomorrow on the ram tanks as lights are off in fishroom now.
I will check anyways though in the am.

Thanks D!


Yes, it was overnight. I probably should of run this during the day - didn't really expect to get any ammonia.

I agree on redosing and snails. I don't want to bump off a snail (never thought I'd say that!) for no reason when I'm not sure on the ammonia test kit.

I had used ammonia test about a month back when I cleaned a DT canister filter and I remember tap water and DT was 0 ammonia then so all very odd.

I'll probably try repeating this test in several weeks but do it a bit more scientifically. For instance I never checked tank ammonia before dosing so should of done that.
 
Well I tested the two 40 gallon breeders I treated yesterday and surprise I have ammonia!
I then tested my 180 which had not been treated in a week and it too registered ammonia.
It has been so long since I tested ammonia that both my reagent bottles were brand new with 2017 expiration dates.
All the fish seem fine so I wonder.
I found numerous links to false readings but when I tested my tap and ro it would appear the test is semi accurate(tap had ammonia and ro had none).
I of course changed water and tested for nitrates.
All tanks registered nitrates in different ranges.
I really don't know what to make of this?
Since I'm not new to all this and will(did) change water when I feel needed I can believe the reading is effected by something?
Still treated the 180 moments ago so we will see.
 
I tested PP dosed tank, tap, DT and distilled water this afternoon for ammonia. The dosed tank had a 90% pwc earlier on.

All readings around the 0 (or between 0 and 0.25 but more towards 0). Slightly higher ammonia noted for the dosed tank. Lowest reading was on the distilled water.

Did wonder on reading the test as this morning was natural light, while this afternoon was with house lights on as getting towards dusk.

Snail still fine.

Interested if anyone else has tried PP out there?
 
Seems like this would be a good product to use/reccomend to people when their fry get "pin-tailed" from fungus when their born in tanks with high nitrates/bioload. I personally use methylene blue because its safer, but i have been looking for something else to switch to and to use for fungus infections because methylene is so messy and stains everything. However i am skepital for using PP as a "cure" for columnaris, we all know columnaris is a bacteria that lives inside the fish and i don't see how this would cure anything internal infection wise.
 
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