Ram tumor?

[Bbush]

Any idea what this white bump / growth is? Has had it for a month or two I guess. Seems to be getting worse. No other problems. Seems healthy other than that. It is almost coming to a head now.






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[Jessy2363]

Yep if it's not fungus then it is an external tumour or lymphcystis. It can be caused by certain viral infections and often tumours are inherited from parents. There is no treatment for either of these. However with lymphcystis it can disappear on its own over time so don't worry about it. It can take months for it to go away. I know they can look unsightly (sort-of) But often they will become flatter and less noticeable in time. As long as your water parameters are good and the fish is eating well just leave it. Rams are prone to these as far as I am aware and they do no harm to the fish. Just make sure it's not fungus! In which pimafix will cure it.

 

[coralbandit]

+1 on the lymphocystis
Good link, but the pictures are not what most people see.
Many times keepers experience only 1 growth.
FA181/FA181: Lymphocystis Disease in Fish

 

[Jessy2363]

Gosh I didn't know the cyst housed the virus.

 

[Bbush]

Thanks! I was beginning to think no one cared... I have the ram in a hospital tank - treating with Maracyn. Doesn't seem to be any worse. I'm going to do a couple good water changes & see if that knocks it out.

Also, may just have to keep him out of my DT. I don't think rams are built for community tanks that tall. I'm thinking it may be a bit crowded in there, & hardly any food makes it to the bottom where it dwells.


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[Jessy2363]

If it is what I think there's no need to isolate the ram. I wouldn't torture it with meds as they won't do anything. This is hardly contagious. Even if another species did get the virus it most likely won't show symptoms. I had a ram with this problem and never bothered to do anything. it didn't spread at all and the ram is completely healthy and happy. I'm glad I didn't quarantine it as that can often kill fish by stressing them out unnecessarily.

 

[Bbush]

K, in that case I'll move it today. Thanks for the tip. The meds do seem like they hurt more than they help sometimes. I have am only on day two of the 5 day cycle anyway.


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[HUKIT]

That is not lymphocystis that is a tumor. I wouldn't bother with meds as there is nothing that can be done. If the fish is eating and having a normal life then there isn't a concern, if the tumor continues to grow and effects the ability to eat or swim then it's time to put the fish down but until then it is what it is.

 

[Bbush]

At any rate... I moved it out of the hospital... Either way it seems like I don't need it. It does seem ok apart from the way it looks. None of the others seem to be effected.


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[Jessy2363]

That is not lymphocystis that is a tumor. I wouldn't bother with meds as there is nothing that can be done. If the fish is eating and having a normal life then there isn't a concern, if the tumor continues to grow and effects the ability to eat or swim then it's time to put the fish down but until then it is what it is.

Am curious to know how you know it's not lymphocystis without doing a biopsy. I personally think it could be either a tumour or lymphcystis. Look at pictures of fish with it. Looks identical.

 

[HUKIT]

Am curious to know how you know it's not lymphocystis without doing a biopsy. I personally think it could be either a tumour or lymphcystis. Look at pictures of fish with it. Looks identical.

They don't look identical, as lymphocystis grows on the outside of skin and tumors grow from within pushing out.

 

[Jessy2363]

They don't look identical, as lymphocystis grows on the outside of skin and tumors grow from within pushing out.

Yeah and this fish has the nodule looking thing on the outside of its body. Therefore Lymphocystis. However tumours can occur inside and outside of the fish. Therefore this could be either but likely to be lymphocystis due to the cauliflower like growth appearance.

 

[Bbush]

Time will tell huh? I'm not doing a biopsy, people...


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[Bbush]

Update - now its eye looks like this...



One of the symptoms of lymphocystis is Popeye.

I moved it back to the hospital mainly to keep it away from my other ram it was fighting with.

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[Bbush]

Update: Eye's back to normal, but tumor/growth still looks the same. Seems otherwise healthy.
& now in tank w/out other ram.

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[Delapool]

I'd go for a tumor as well. It doesn't have that warty or cauliflower mass "on" the fish but looks imo to be inside the fish. That's all I can see though.

I have seen suggested meds but really no solution is known. (You might as well try salt where the fish would otherwise be put down as well as anything else).

The cause I don't really know on. Most diseases I think the aim is to cure the fish and make sure it doesn't happen again (I know obvious but sometimes seems forgotten). Here, idk, badmans suggests "oncoviruses may be suspect in turning off genes involved in tumor suppression. In fish, just as in other animals, may be benign or malignant (cancerous)."

Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures.

 

[Jessy2363]

I'd go for a tumor as well. It doesn't have that warty or cauliflower mass "on" the fish but looks imo to be inside the fish. That's all I can see though.

I have seen suggested meds but really no solution is known. (You might as well try salt where the fish would otherwise be put down as well as anything else).

The cause I don't really know on. Most diseases I think the aim is to cure the fish and make sure it doesn't happen again (I know obvious but sometimes seems forgotten). Here, idk, badmans suggests "oncoviruses may be suspect in turning off genes involved in tumor suppression. In fish, just as in other animals, may be benign or malignant (cancerous)."

Tropical Fish Disease Identification with pictures and cures.

The little tiny white lump thing on the top right hand corner near the fish's head. Our left obviously. It's external. If the fish were a human it would be located on the back of its right shoulder. Can you honestly not see it? That's not to say that there aren't internal cysts of the same type as the fish is a carrier of the virus. That cyst is looking after the virus. It's a virus factory. Interesting and slightly disgusting. It can attack their organs however only in extreme cases of it. Once the cyst bursts (which it will) the virus will attempt to find a new host. The virus is however host specific. But in order for it to find a host within the short period of time that it is free swimming, the new host must have a lesion or open wound on its body for the virus to enter into. What are the odds? And the new host must be a ram also. Therefore it is hardly contagious yet it still is. One day it will flatten out and maybe leave a tiny scar. But that could be months from now. Keep us posted if you want

 

[Delapool]

The little tiny white lump thing on the top right hand corner near the fish's head. Our left obviously. It's external. If the fish were a human it would be located on the back of its right shoulder. Can you honestly not see it? That's not to say that there aren't internal cysts of the same type as the fish is a carrier of the virus. That cyst is looking after the virus. It's a virus factory. Interesting and slightly disgusting. It can attack their organs however only in extreme cases of it. Once the cyst bursts (which it will) the virus will attempt to find a new host. The virus is however host specific. But in order for it to find a host within the short period of time that it is free swimming, the new host must have a lesion or open wound on its body for the virus to enter into. What are the odds? And the new host must be a ram also. Therefore it is hardly contagious yet it still is. One day it will flatten out and maybe leave a tiny scar. But that could be months from now. Keep us posted if you want

(shrug) - I've looked again and still wouldn't call that external. We may have to agree to disagree on this one.