Red gills on cichlid, but no ammonia

[katepost28]

I'm treating with Furan 2. It has one day left. The splotch of black covers the tip of his whole back fins and the tips of his other fins. On his body it looks like little spots. It definitely appears to be under the slime coat. I did have a weird bloom when I changed the water. A clear fuzzy gunk on the one side of the tank. It was black when I scrubbed it off. Not sure what that means.

He's not looking so good. He's very lethargic now. I wish I would have done the parasite meds first. I have API General Cure. They were out of Tetra's brand. It has the prazo in it. I was too afraid to do salt dips since he was so sick but I did dose the water with 1 tbs per 5 gall. I added some more salt when I did the change as the meds directed.


I'll try to get a picture of it when I get home. He won't come out to show me.

 

[Delapool]

Sounds good. I think the black spot sounds possible on timing and your description (usually at this point a photo appears which suggests something completely different So I suggest doing your own research as well. Black patches can mean ammonia or other chemical burns as you know but it can also mean bacterial infection. I had one recently with internal bacterial which showed up externally over the body as like black oval patches / bruises. So as mentioned above I think, you could be unlucky and have a few things going on).

So onto treatment. Not 100% sure. In reading I've seen that any med for external parasites will work. So anything that treats ich basically. In theory that includes API general cure as the metro should treat for it but I've never treated for black spot and am pretty confident I could go at least another decade aquarium keeping without seeing it so unfortunately haven't done much research. A salt dip prior to treatment could help. Jessy would be better helping there should you decide to do this. The prazi in the general cure is generally pretty safe so neither here nor there. My suggestion for what it is worth, is salt dip, keep dosing furan 2 and you can combine that with API general cure and do a course of both combined pretty safely. I should note others are flat out against combining meds, particularly on very weak fish so bit of a judgement call.

The bloom (if white may be bacterial?) suggests your bacterial population is under stress. If I'm reading that right on your post. If it was a bacterial bloom then it's the hetero bacteria (before I get shot down) but I find that indicates the nitrifying bacteria are under stress so keep checking ammonia. Bacterial blooms are common for me in stressed tanks straight after a water change (or if I clean filters too aggressively) but maybe that's just me

Edit - somewhere apparently there is a research article on metro successfully used on ich. I can't find it, if anyone comes across something like that would appreciate the info or experience sharing.

 

[katepost28]

I tried to get Peaches to pop out for a photo but he wouldn't with the light on. I do however have a video from last Saturday which was when I noticed the lethargy and red gills. You can see a few spots on his tail there. I took the video to show my lfs his gills.

I've seen a lot of mixed opinions on combining meds. Today was his last of the four doses for the Furan 2. I'm going to do a water change and try the prazi after.

I read up on a mix of different fish diseases and it was difficult for me to find the right fit with the spots. I've seen multiple photos but nothing really looks the same. I'm positive it's not a chemical burn or a water quality issue.

About the bloom, it looked whitish. It was transparent almost. It kind of waved in the current as it was right on the glass near where the filter lets out. It looked like a bacterial colony to me. My major focuses a lot on microbio and if I had access to a microscope in the summer I could have seen what it was. My nitro bacteria probably weren't happy when I had to exchange filters. I'm probably changing the carbon cartridges too often. I've seen a lot of people say that they really aren't necessary and to just use the floss and sponges.

Since I'm done with the antibiotic, I'll try some quick start to help the cycle along again.

Also, I just want to thank you both for helping me so much! You don't know how much it means to me. I care about my fish as much as I care about my other pets.

 

[katepost28]

The video didn't show up. I believe I did something wrong. I uploaded it so here's the link.

 

[Jessy2363]

Oh dear Sounds like it's not going well.
Bout the filter, Just use filter floss and if you can fit them in there some bio noodles. Carbon will take meds out and render them useless. Also you don't need it to keep your water sparkling. You just rinse your filter floss in a bucket of tank water every couple weeks to de-sludge them. I've read rumours that carbon can take some good stuff out of the water too! I know it makes the water look beautiful but carbon only really lasts a couple weeks. And those filter cartridges container carbon inside them often which means you kinda have to replace them as the carbon leeches crap back into the water once it can't take anymore dirt in.

Yeah the API general cure is the second best choice to tetra. You said they were out so good job buying the API brand. Only reason I say to buy tetra brand is it has 4 different parasitic meds in it where as API only has 2. Tetra has what API has in it plus 2 more. Anyway that's not to say API isn't good! So yeah good idea on putting the salt in the water. Keep us posted on how the general cure goes. Never know, it might just do the trick! Also if you can get some cycled filter media from a friend (who has no diseases in their tank) and re-seed your filter. Last thing you need is ammonia

 

[katepost28]

The good news is, my little dude is still hanging on. He seems a little less lethargic. The funny part is he felt good enough to try and nibble me as I cleaned the tank. Since it's day one of parasite meds, I haven't seen any change yet.

I do have a friend with some cichlids who might be able to help me out with restarting the cycle but thanks for the tip on the floss. Fluval recommends replacing the sponges in the U2 as well but I haven't seen any locally and they aren't beat up or anything so I've been rinsing them tank water rather than buying new.

One question though, if the general cure doesn't clear it up, could I dose again or dose with Tetra's meds? General Cure calls for 1 dose then another after 48 hrs and that's it. Doesn't seem like much to me but I just wanted you guys' opinion on it.

 

[Jessy2363]

Hey, you could try tetra parasite guard after if the api general cure doesn't work as the parasite guard has Praziquantel, Dflubenzuron, Metronidazole and Acriflavin. Whereas the General cure only has Praziquantel and Metronidazole. So maybe? I mean if you can afford to its worth a try.

In regards to the dosing. Tetra parsite guard says to treat once, waiting 48 hours and treat again. BUT if you have a real stubborn parasite it says to treat again and wait 48 hours. So that's three treatments (6 days). THEN it says to treat once a week for 3 weeks to make sure all the larvae is killed. So considering the general cure has the same ingredients bar two less then it wouldn't not hurt to do the same?

One thing I thought about is maybe the fish has hexamita also? That is a common cichlid parasitic protozoan that lives in the digestive tract and causes them not to eat from the irritation when swollowing. Maybe it has this also? In which case metronidazole is the cure. HOWEVER metronidazole needs to be treated for around 14 days to rid this parasite or even longer in some cases. The reason it takes so long is because A) metronidazole is not very water soluble and B) its a antibiotic and some antibiotics need around 14 days to fully kill something sinister off. Some people think 14 days is too long. I think it's almost not long enough as this parasite once taken hold needs a long treatment of metro to get rid of. Metro is not very toxic in proper doses so don't worry about the fish suffering from the med and helps with heaps of parasitic problems.

It baffles me why these companies only say 4 to 6 days on antibiotics. It should really depend on how sick the fish is. I often treat for longer as the duration listed on the packet is never long enough. They say it because they are frightened of liver damage. I'd rather kill the parasite or bacteria and then worry about liver damage as not treating for long enough is a lose lose situation.

If your tetra parasite guard or API general cure doesn't work and you've got the money to spend. You could try seachem metroplex and treat for a long duration of time. Like for 14 days. Then if that doesn't work you could try methylene blue in a quarantine tank. ANd if that doesn't work then I'm stumped I too have a sick fish who I refuse to give up on who has been battling for over a month now and looks almost dead so I know what you're going through. And I refuse to give up on it until it actually dies as you never know. Something just might work.

But yeah get your filter sorted. I'm guessing the furan 2 nuked it. kanaplex doesn't nuke filters so much and neither does metroplex.

IN regards to fluval's recommendations of replacing filter cartridges ignore them and use this rule of thumb. If the filter is completely falling apart then replace it, even then you don't have to. All a filter does is polish the water and house bacteria. I don't think the bacteria are too fussy about their home, even if its falling apart I doubt they care. If you do buy fluval replacements don't buy carbon mixed with floss and noodles. Keep the carbon in its own removable thing. As that does need replacing, if you decide to even use it.

 

[Delapool]

How are the gills going? Any improvement.

 

[katepost28]

He eats just fine so hopefully it isn't hexamita. The little poos I see when I vacuum the gravel look normal to me. Protozoans are nasty things though. API didn't have any recommendation as to repeated doses but I will try the longer treatment. I don't understand why they recommend such a small dose either. As far as antibiotcs go, metronidazole is given to people as well and I know for a fact it's given at least 10 days.

I was a little confused on how the Metroplex is given. You put it in their food, correct? The site gives instructions on adding to water and food but most articles have suggested putting it in food due to internal parasites. I've only ever fed pellets. Doing it that way looked difficult, not that I wouldn't be willing to give it a shot. I'll order some metroplex or see if I can get the Tetra. Both run about the same price. I'd much rather spend money to keep Peaches alive rather than getting other fish.

I was able to get a picture of his fins. The few patches on his side are gone now. His gills don't look that much better to me. They aren't flaming red anymore but they still look irritated. I was also a little concerned about his head, are the little spots on his head hole in head disease or is this common in parrots? I know hole in head is but I wasn't sure if he's supposed to have the spots. I'm looking him over too much now. Sorry the pictures aren't too clear. He moves about very quickly.

My first parrot had similar spots but I was sure it was hole in head but that was due to the fact I was only 14 and wasn't aware that the people at big pet chains aren't totally reliable on telling you appropriate tank sizes.

Would some media from a RES turtle tank be acceptable to seed with if I can't find anyone? She's disease free and I've tested the water. The nitrates are a little high but ammonia is very minimal and there are no nitrites.