Should I worry about my goldfish?

[Ahimsa]

Hi, I am new to the forum and fairly new and unexperienced at fish keeping.
I was wondering if somebody can give me advice about my oranda goldfish 6-7in. It has bloody streaks in its tail. I think it's called septicemia.
I use drop kits to test water quality, ammonia and nitrite are at 0, nitrates 10-20, ph 7.
The tank has been set up for 5 months, but I had these fish in another tank and then moved them into the current one with the same gravel, ornaments and bio-media in the sump.
There 5 fish altogether: 3 orandas, 1 black more and 1 ranchu.
I have noticed the streaks in the afflicted fish over a month ago. And it has not gotten better or worse. It is only couple veins. It has no change in the behavior and very active and aware.
I do weekly 40-50% water changes and vacuume the gravel very thoroughly.
They eat spectrum sinking pallets twice a day, daily veggies and frozen bloodworms once a week.
A while back I tested my source water and got a high nitrates reading, so I invested in RO unit and add aquarium salt and "stability" to the water I do water change with.
When the tank was first set up I had a lot of algee and since then I do an algee treatment every 2-3 weeks.
There is a tray with activated carbon, polishing pad, nitrazorb and bio-balls in the sump.
There are shells mixed in with the gravel, some of them dissolve over time. There is a piece of driftwood and couple live plants. I had some fake branches but the bigger fish was getting stuck, so I took it out. I am waiting for a manzanita branch in the mail.
My question is what do I do about the streaks in my fish tail? I had it for a year and a half and it had doubled in size since. If it is something serious I want to take care of it. I do not have a quarantine tank.
If you have an insight please help.
Thank you,
Polina

 

[jlk]

Hi and welcome to AA!!! What size is this tank? It sounds like you are doing a very good job with your fish so far but you may want to consider upping your water changes (depending on the size of the tank).

A few things stand out here- first, stop adding salt. There is no need for salt with fw fish (especially goldfish) and longterm use can cause permanent damage & lead to a host of health issues including nephric, endocrine and metabolic disorders. You dont need to remove it all at once but just simply do not add anymore in the future. Second, are you adding a product such as Seachems Replenish or Kents RO Right? This is a MUST if you are using RO water in a fw tank. It adds back minerals & electrolytes that have been stripped from the water. The Stability product isnt necessary. Its questionable whether it works at all to help cycle a tank & your tank appears to be cycled based on your numbers, so theres no need for it. Third, what type of algae product are you using? Adding chemicals to treat algae is a bandaid approach- you need to address its root cause & solve it. The additional chemicals may be factor here as well as the lack of minerals/electrolytes & the use of salt. Is there any reason your using driftwood & plan on adding more?

I would start by addressing your few water concerns mentioned and see if this alone may resolve his veining issue. Minor veining is not unusual (especially in white fish) but this sounds like a more recent development and indicates a possible concern here. If you can post a pic of him, this will help as well.

 

[Ahimsa]

Jlk, thank you for such detailed and generous answer!
My tank is 86g, it's predrilled and the sump is a little under 15g.
Awhile back two different unrelated sources told me to use aquarium salts to treat RO water, so I did not question it after and just went with it. 1 tbsp for 5g. So I will definitely switch to Kent RO.
I used algae treatment twice and it is Tetra Algae control. Once in a while I would catch Nitrates at 40, that is why I added Nitrazorb. I guess that is the reason for algae?
And I used to have fake branches in the tank, but my big fish got stuck couple of times, so I took it out, but the tank looks empty and barren now. And the fish do not have much place to hide. That is the reason i ordered another one. Do you think it's not a good idea to have manzanita in the tank? The piece of driftwood I have there now came with some plants and keeps them anchored. And I was hoping that the plants will help me to keep the nitrates down.
Thank you!

 

[jlk]

Thank you for the pics! Your oranda looks nice and healthy! I can see (just barely) a tiny bit of what looks like veining in the top of the tail in the second pic. And, as I mentioned earlier, this is sometimes more obvious in a fish that is white (he has white tail). Can you see any veining in the orange areas of his tail? For now, as long as he seems happy, active & has a good appetite, lets just keep an eye on it and address your water first. If, at any point, you notice this becoming worse or his attitude/behavior changes at all, it will have to be addressed asap.

Aq salt will not do much for RO water- if you were adding a marine salt, this would be a different story. Replenish or RO Right is all thats needed because you are not keeping sw fish. I only ask about the driftwood because your ph is presently at 7 (expected with RO water) but dw can lower ph levels. You do not want your ph dropping any lower, especially with goldfish. This is my only concern here so its something that you need to keep an eye on when you add more.

Adding more plants is a great idea and will help with water quality as well as provide hiding places. When I used to have gravel in my one tank, I used plant anchors to keep them in place & prevent them from being dug up. They make metal ones and plastic ones. I found the plastic ones easy & simple to use. Ill post a link to them below. Keep up the good work and do not hesitate to ask any questions!!

Anchors & Planting Aids

 

[Ahimsa]

Dear Jlk,
I wanted to give a little update and ask for your advice.
No change in my fish, still active and begging for food non-stop, but the red streaks are still there.

I have been doing a lot of water changes with RO water and seechem Replenish, and also adding API PH up, as my source water at 6.8. And so far the TDS from 1400 to 350. I took the driftwood out and got more live plants.
But I still seam to have nitrates issue. 2 days after 80% water change the nitrates are at 30. In some of the other forums I have seen a fact brought up that wet-dry filters can have higher nitrate levels.

Do you think it will be worth it investing in a de-nitrator? Is it ok for gold fish? And what do you think about this particular model

http://www.poseidonwarehouse.com/De...X2_X3_Denitrators/Poseidon_X2_DeNitrator.html

Seems like some of them require weekly feedings, but that one does not.

Let me know if you have an insight on the subject.
Thank you,
Polina

 

[jlk]

Hi Polina! I honestly have no personal experience with denitrifying filters. A goldfish breeder friend on mine did attempt a denitrifying setup and it failed miserably and he gave up on it. To my knowledge, they are safe for any fish but whether they actually work or not is a topic for discussion. I would ask in the 'general discussion' area of this forum to see if any members have had experience with them (positive or negative) and spend some more time doing research before considering the investment. I am sorry I cant offer more specific advice!

I am curious though about your nitrate levels. After the 80% wc, are they increasing from zero to 30 in 2 days or another number (say 10 or 15) to 30 in 2 days? Part of this is simply because your fish are growing and goldfish are just messy fish. Lots of big water changes and add some more fastgrowing plants (if possible).

 

[Ahimsa]

I am never able to get the nitrates to 0, and it's somewhat difficult to read the test - the color chart I have 10 and 20 look the same to me and 40and 80 as well. So even after a massive water change, there is some orange color in the test tube
And to change 50%- 75% in 86 gl, is a lot of work. I finally got an extra pump to pump the water back into the sump and not use the buckets.
I have 3 Anubis, 3 marimo balls, 3 different hygrophilas plus 2 others I do not know names for. Maybe I'll get more plants and give it more time to see if it makes the difference.
Would you recommend something else?

Thank you for taking time to help!
I browse through forums often, just for learning experience and your posts are very insightful!
I guess one never stops learning with this hobby.

 

[jlk]

Dont worry- I can never get my nitrates zero either (except in my pond) thanks to my tap water. Any type of fast growing plants are the best nitrate absorbers- some examples are wisteria, hornwort, elodea, etc. Red tiger lotus seems to be popular in goldfish tanks, too. I know theres others but I am drawing a blank right now! I also am using water lettuce (floating plant) right now that pulled from outside & it seems to be growing crazy! You can ask in the planted area for more suggestions!

Thank you for the comment!! I love learning new things and always discover or learn something new browsing the aquatic forums. And I try to help where I can! Keep us posted!!

 

[Ahimsa]

Hi JlK,

This morning when I was examining my tank I saw something different with one of my fish. The same one I asked you about before. There some white spots on the gills and the fins that are just below them. The fish is acting usual very active, alert and eating, no other ones have it.
I have the same schedule for water changes 80% weekly, ammonia 0, trite 0, trate 10, ph 7,2( I have been using API ph up). Temperature 77-78.

I added a lot of new plants with in last month.

What is it? Does it need to be isolated?

 

[jlk]

Nothing to worry about!!! You have a very healthy male fish. Those little bumps/bubbles on the gills/pectoral fins are breeding tuberucles. It just indicates he is sexually mature now (and ready for breeding activity) and that you have been taking excellent care of them. Fancies dont expend extra resources on reproduction unless they are in very good health and well fed. He looks great, btw!!

 

[Ahimsa]

OMG!

I was so worried!
It's very funny!

 

[jlk]

He is healthy & happy and in great shape! Keep up the great job your doing taking care of them!! Do watch his behavior though- this will give give you an idea if he is a more aggressive male or a placid one. Some sexually mature males couldnt care less about reproduction. Others can be more aggressive and will start to display breeding behaviors (chasing, bumping, bullying, etc) even if there are no females in the tank or the females are not mature enough yet to reproduce.

 

[Ahimsa]

Dear Jlk

I got another issue with one of my goldfish. It looks like a wart growing under his scales by the right pectoral fin.
2 months ago we were out of town and my husband turned the heater off in the house and the person checking on the tank told me that the temperature in the tank got down to 69, I keep it at 77 usually. When I came back one of the fish had a full blown dropsy. It was painful to watch him. I upped my water changes and fed them metro meds and 2 weeks later he turned around! Last week I noticed that he got his breading tubercles. And last night I saw a strange growth. He behaves normally, eats well, full of energy and even chases one of the females around the tank once in a while.
80 gl tank, planted, 5 goldfish, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10-20. Change 80-90% of water every 6days. Wet-dry filter plus purigen, I treat water with prime and add liquid CO2 and aquaon plant fertilizer .
Do you have any advice about what should I do about this growth?

 

[jlk]

Did it appear overnight or has it been gradually growing?

 

[Ahimsa]

I think it just appeared, I pay pretty close attention to them, and yesterday was the first time I noticed it.

 

[jlk]

Did he get a course of metro? When did you finish the course? If it was just a fleshy growth, I would not be overly concerned but it looks rather red and appeared overnight which makes me suspect he may have a bit of an infection happening. Have you ever treated these guys with praziquantel (doesnt directly have to do with this but will help with history here)? Would you be able to qt him?

 

[Ahimsa]

I did a prazipro treatment on the tank 4 months ago , and did 10 day metro meds treatment then. And this time I fed all 5 of them metro meds for 2 weeks last day Feb 7 th. I have a plastic bin I can use as qt tank. Should I give him meds again?
Thank you for the help! ?

 

[jlk]

Ok, I realize this may be a bit of pain and I know he will not be happy about it, but lets try quarantining him for a bit with another of the meds. I dont believe whats happening will spread but your other guys do not need another course of meds for no reason. I also want you to add some salt to his water for medicinal purposes only here. Predissolve 1level tsp/g of aq salt in cup of tank water and add this solution slowly over a 24hr period. Lets see how he is doing in a few days and go from there. Sound good?