Sick angel fish

[kirkland795]

So I am very upset that one of my favorite angel fish just passed away. I have a 60 gallon aquarium that has been established for years with 4 adult angels and various other small fish. All of my water parameters and temp are normal. I always do a head count when I feed to ensure everyone is there and eating normally. Yesterday I noticed my angel Sushi was in the corner with her fins disintegrating and a white fungus on her body. It was weird because she had been normal the day before. I immediately quarantined her and treated her for a bacterial infection. Unfortunately she died today. None of my other fish have been affected including my delicate guppies and ghost catfish. The only recent change was I added a gourami about 2 weeks ago but had quarantined the gourami for 2 weeks before adding him to the main tank.
So I guess my question is what could be so aggressive that would kill my angel so fast and leave all my other fish untouched? Should I be worried about my other fish? I immediately did a 50 percent water change. I usually clean my tank every 2 weeks and remove half the water.

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[Delapool]

Guessing nothing had really changed in the tank at all (or several days before hand)? Had there been any aggression on/off in the previous week?

I've got a rosy barb that I think has been attacked by angels (after being a bit run down from maybe a slight ammonia spike from DIY root tabs the previous weekend) and sadly don't think he will make it.

 

[kirkland795]

No nothing else has changed. All fish are healthy and parameters are great. I have 2 angels that have paired off so maybe some aggression occurred but I couldn't see any wounds. Plus I haven't really seen any aggressive behavior besides the usual nipping here and there.
Sorry to hear about your barb. Hopefully it pulls through

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[ImACoolguy]

White fuzz just screams fungal infection to me. Which usually only occurs from open wounds, even ripped up fins can cause it I believe.


Caleb

 

[Delapool]

Hopefully a one-off for your tank.

Yeah, this one is about 4 years old and I was just reading they live for up to 5 years so maybe the school has done pretty well. Still thinking - ever since one angel fish "lost" an eye I'm a bit more suspicious on what they get up to. Just watching one of the serpae tetras running rings around the angel fish to have a go at the fins (rarely seen I must admit) and wondering how "community" my tank is.

 

[Andy Sager]

Angelfish can and do attack each other, especially when mating is involved. I've had fish go from normal to dead in 24 hours from attacks by their mates even so I would say, based on the degree of severity, that one of your fish attacked this one so bad and it left wounds open to fungal attack.
That said, the water in your tank may not be as clean as you think that the fish could have such an advanced stage of fungus infection in such a short amount of time. I would do a nitrate test and a substrate check for detritus accumulation. Keep a close eye on your other Angel not part of the pair for any signs of aggression towards it. I'd remove the other Angel or the pair from the community if this happens.

Hope this helps.

 

[kirkland795]

Thanks for the advice. I will double check the nitrates. I'll definitely keep an eye out for any more aggression as well. I work so hard to keep them happy and thriving and then they just kill each other. I guess it happens unfortunately.

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[Andy Sager]

Thanks for the advice. I will double check the nitrates. I'll definitely keep an eye out for any more aggression as well. I work so hard to keep them happy and thriving and then they just kill each other. I guess it happens unfortunately.

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Getting a breeding pair of Angelfish from a group you've raised is truly a double edged sword. On the one hand, it shows that you have done a great job raising the fish that they've become sexually mature and want to use it. The other side of the coin is that they are cichlids and can be ( and usually are) very aggressive towards any tank mates when they want to breed so they really shouldn't be in a community tank set up for their safety as well as the other fish's safety. Also, Angelfish live in a hierarchy society so there will always be some form of aggression within the society but it's usually nothing more than mock challenges or a simple nip. This is why I usually recommend that if you do want a larger group of Angels to live together in a tank, make it all males. Males will always just live within the hierarchy rules. Females, on the other hand, can and do lay eggs by themselves or pair up with other females so they act just like a breeding pair as far as aggression goes without the benefits of fry to raise. So you don't gain anything from a group full of females. When they are of mixed genders, Fights to the death can happen, as you probably witnessed, for breeding rights. This is when most losses occur because the aquarist in unaware of the maturing of the fish or not seeing the signals of impending aggression. It happens more than not. That's just the nature of this fish. As I said earlier, it happens even with mated pairs. I currently have 3 males( from breeding pairs) that have been beaten so bad by their females that 2 have lost an eye and the third was killed. It goes to show you, it happens and there is not much you can do about it if you want pairs.

I hope all this new info helps.

 

[kirkland795]

Thank you again for all the insight. My nitrates tested fine again and I went ahead and did another water change to be on the safe side. I'm gonna keep my eye out for aggression and hopefully this will be an isolated incident.

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[kirkland795]

I should have taken your advice. Today my third angel(marbled veil tail) turned up dead. He had been eating the night before perfectly normal. He had no apparent wounds on his body, no fungus or anything. I must have found him right after he died because he looked perfectly normal. I am so upset. I don't understand. If he had been attacked to the point of death wouldn't he have some kind of wounds? Even his long veil fins were untouched. Like I said my delicate fish such as guppies and ghost catfish are still fine. They are usually the first to show distress if something weird is going on in the tank. I'm so frustrated I kind of want to rehome my remaining angels and start with a true community tank. My water parameters are great 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates. Temp is steady at 78-80. I've cleaned it very well and there isn't a build of detritus or anything. What ever is killing my fish its happening quick when they appear otherwise healthy. If it was aggression why am I not seeing any wounds?

 

[Andy Sager]

It's probably not a water issue but the pairing issue. As I said previously, in my opinion, about the worst thing you can have in a community tank is a breeding pair of cichlids, especially Angelfish. If your plans are not to breed them, I'd trade them in to a store or another hobbyist. You can, depending on the types, get some decent money for pairs that still look in good shape.
Just something to think about. :whistle

 

[kirkland795]

Thanks for the response. I'm def going to look into trading them.

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[brennae]

Just my two cents but I don't believe 2 weeks is a long enough qt for pet store fish. This probably has nothing to do with what happened in your tank and just my opinion

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[Delapool]

The barb didn't make it here. One thing I did notice was that over a few days in QT indentations and scale loss appeared on one side. I assume this was from being attacked but not completely sure - could of just been the fish going downhill.

 

[TbOnE]

I can attest to having a horrible fungal outbreak after a 2 week quarantine on a pleco I added into the tank. It's always a roll of the dice when you add new fish

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[Andy Sager]

I can attest to having a horrible fungal outbreak after a 2 week quarantine on a pleco I added into the tank. It's always a roll of the dice when you add new fish

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However, the idea of a QT tank is to take the "roll of the dice" out of the equation. The biggest issue is that most don't QT for long enough to know if any or all problems don't exist. Most Vet sites will tell you to QT for 6 weeks or longer due to longer incubation times for some diseases. So those who don't QT or don't QT long enough have the dice stacked against them. I prefer to stack them in my favor.

 

[PoppaRyno]

However, the idea of a QT tank is to take the "roll of the dice" out of the equation. The biggest issue is that most don't QT for long enough to know if any or all problems don't exist. Most Vet sites will tell you to QT for 6 weeks or longer due to longer incubation times for some diseases. So those who don't QT or don't QT long enough have the dice stacked against them. I prefer to stack them in my favor.

100% couldnt agree more.

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[brennae]

I do 6 to 8 weeks. The the cost of some of the specialty fish it's best to be safe with those dice!

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[ImACoolguy]

However, the idea of a QT tank is to take the "roll of the dice" out of the equation. The biggest issue is that most don't QT for long enough to know if any or all problems don't exist. Most Vet sites will tell you to QT for 6 weeks or longer due to longer incubation times for some diseases. So those who don't QT or don't QT long enough have the dice stacked against them. I prefer to stack them in my favor.

1000% correct. I use to never QT and it finally bit me with a case of columnaris. $60 fish down the drain.

I always QT now..


Caleb