Sick Angel with Fin Rot and Septicemia

[Muppeholic]

Well, it's been a month since I posted on this. We seem to have hit a stall here. Nothing gets rid of the infection 100 percent it seems.

However, one of the problems is that for some unknown reason my pH keeps lowering itself! It's been maintaining at 6.0 pH. Our tap water pH is 7.6 so every time we do a 25% change the pH jumps to 6.4 (sometimes a little more) but it doesn't maintain there. The LFS hypothesis is that the nitrogen cycle bacteria has been "trained" for that pH. (His example was that if the water stays at a certain pH for say a month the bacteria will "learn" that pH and excrete it.) I was wondering if anyone else had heard of this? The LFS suggested we remove the bio-wheel and see if that aids in clearing out the 6.0 pH bacteria. We have also added a pH stabilizer (one that is supposed to gradually increase pH up to 7.0).

I believe the fish will not recover really until we can stabilize the pH on this matter. All the other paramaters except a slight increase in ammonia of .25 are normal or are not a factor. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[Essayons89]

I realize that I'm jumping in on this thread late and apologize in advance if I step on any toes.

Well, it's been a month since I posted on this. We seem to have hit a stall here. Nothing gets rid of the infection 100 percent it seems.

Which infection- the fin rot or the septicaemia? If the kanamycin doesn't seem to be working on the septicaemia then I would try swtiching to a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2. The Maracyn 2 will treat for the septicaemia. Maracyn will help if there are any other secondary infections.

If the finrot is still an issue then both of these are effective against it. The majority of the time finrot IS the flavobacterium (flex). The erythromycin contained in Maracyn is highly effective in treating this.

PH swings can harm the biofiltration of a tank, as long as any adjustments to pH are made very slowly there shouldn't be a problem. Just out of curiosity, what is the kh of the tank?

All ammonia is toxic at .25ppm or above but it can vary from fish species to fish species as to how high of an ammonia level proves fatal to a certain fish. The fluccuating pH after the water changes and the rise in ammonia may be what is keeping the fish from healing completely.

Bryan

 

[Muppeholic]

It's the Septicemia. The fins have almost completely healed. I've tried 10 days each of Maracyn combined with Maracyn 2, Kanamycin (but it may not of worked 'cause I don't think my pellets absorbed it real well), and Furazone Light. The LFS said it could be that the meds won't work completely 'cause the low pH may be stressing the fish out preventing the completion of the healing process.

How do you test for kh? I'm a newbie.

I use the same water in my large tank and it maintains a nice 7.0 pH. We've lost 4 fish from this one but I think I know why. Our pleco was lost during the nitrite spike in the cycling of the tank. The other 3 (2 dwarf ghourami and 1 albino cory) died about 2 weeks ago. The angel in the hex was starting to show signs of septicemia and some of the other fish looked kinda pinkish. We did 10 days of Furazone Lite, which helped some. Then did a 10 day round of Maracyn 2. Same situation here of the Septicemia not completely going away. However, my husband pulled out the majority of the decorations and did a deeper gravel vacuum and a lot of gunk came out. So I'm assuming the problem in this tank was simply not cleaning it out well enough.

The current plan is to wait for the water in both tanks to be as close to ideal as possible (chemicals/waste-wise) and then try medication with a combination of Melafix and Pimafix or Tetracyline. This was suggested by some other website that I now can't recall the address for. One Angel website suggested Oxytetracyline for Hemorrhaegic Septicemia. (I was up until 1 am searching for info last night.)

I just wanted 2nd opinions on what someone more experienced would suggest to try and correct the pH and stabilize it at a more proper level.

 

[Essayons89]

How do you test for kh? I'm a newbie.

Depends on the test kit that you use. The only test for kH that I have any experience with is the AP test. This is a liquid test. With this one you fill up a test tube to the line marked on the tube and add one drop of the test solution. Cap and invert a few times. If the kH is only 1 dkH (one degreeof hardness) then the water will turn from clear to it's yellow endpoint. If the water doesn't turn to yellow after the first drop is added then repeat by adding a drop at a time-inverting the test tube a couple of times after each drop- until the water turns yellow. Count the number of drops. Eaxh drop is equal to one degree (dkH) or 17.9ppm.

Be very careful with mixing medications if you aren't sure of the effect they will have on the fish.

Bryan

 

[Muppeholic]

Duh! (smacking forehead) that's included in the general hardness test kit.

Straight from the tap the pH is 7.6 and the dkH is 7 (125.3 ppm). The 2 gal QT tank is pH 6.0 (again!) and the dkH is 8 (143.2 ppm).

I just want the pH to get up to 6.5 or 6.6 so I can get the fish into a larger tank with 7.0 water without shocking it! The poor things outgrowing the tank and I'm sure the very minute raise in ammonia is because this fish is now pooping normally (and regularly). ::sigh::

It was suggested to my husband to add a very small amount of pure bicarbonate (??? not sure I remembered that right), which is apparantly used to make water less acidic. We have to get a hold of our LFS guy and check.

Meanwhile the majority of the gunk is gone from the gravel of our 35 gal hex! We'll (hopefully) be putting some of the plants (all fake, of course) back in tomorrow. The cory will be pleased! All he's got now to hide in is one flat rock leaning against the side of the tank to hide under.