Sick Cardinal Tetra!

[nerdelish]

I recently completed a fishless cycle and added cardinal tetras, harlequin rasboras and one guppy to my 29 gallon planted tank. All seemed well for a few days but I came home to three dead Cardinals yesterday. The deaths were unexpected. The other fish seemed fine but I noticed last night one stopped schooling with the other five and hide out in plants. This morning, it was still off on it's own. I set up an extra 10 gallon and just caught the fish and plan to put it in the other tank to treat it but I don't know what to do.

The fish seems to have good color and doesn't have any visible thing wrong with it on the outside. However, it doesn't swim much it just hangs out by the bottom of the tank and was really easily caught. When I placed it in my transport container it "swam/floated" for awhile with it's head pointed toward the bottom.

I did have a pH swing two or three days ago but all seemed fine after that. I have sorted it out since then.

Tank parameters
Ammonia: between 0 and .25
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 10 ppm
pH 7.4
temp: 76 F
Tank size 29 gallon set up for about 5 weeks

Filtration: Aquaclear 70

6 cardinals, 1 guppy, 9 harlequin raspbora (all juveniles)

Water change: day before I got fish, has been less than a week (got them last Thursday, July 9)

I acclimated all fish over the course of an hour and half guppy and harlequin I used the floating bag and water exchange method. For cardinals I used the same method but in a bucket.

Nothing new to the tank: have lava rock and malaysian driftwood and plants in tank since beginning.

I feed NLS .5 mm pellets. I did feed some bloodworm 2 days ago but I soaked it in tank water for 15 mins before giving it to tank.

Any ideas what to do or how to treat it? I like the cardinals a lot and would hate to lose more

 

[nerdelish]

It died today.

Here are some pics. Anything I should worry about disease wise? I am worried about the rest of my tetras.

 

[nerdelish]

Another Cardinal is exhibiting the same behavior so I caught the remaining five and am acclimating them to the 10 gallon through drip as we speak.

If anyone has any ideas what to do or what is going on please let me know.

Would adding some aquarium salt to the qt tank help?

 

[Delapool]

My thought would be its either the cardinals can't adjust to the tank (or tank is too new and hasn't stabilised bio film, ammonia, ph swings, etc). I find tetras can be sensitive and not very hardy so better off trying when tank has been established for 3 to 6 months.

Or it fast acting bacterial infection (internal). However that should show up as colour loss in spots or fading colour from head back; spots of bruising, lack of eating / schooling, etc.

Two thoughts to investigate. If just cardinals being lost may be first option and I'm not aware of an easy fix for sensitive fish.

Edit - third option if twitching / bent bodies would be neon tetra disease

 

[nerdelish]

They are all in the 10 gallon and one is swimming oddly. It is moving in very fast circles and then flips upside down and seems to struggle to right itself...and then in a few seconds swims normally. It is just the tetras so perhaps option number one is correct. I feel badly about killing these little guys :-( they are so beautiful and fun to watch.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Delapool]

It's a tricky one. All I can think of would be to try going back to the store and see how they look in the tank again and see if they do anything special or can suggest anything.

They can handle salt when established but dubious on it doing much for them at the moment if they are just being sensitive to the water.

I've given up on them. Tank is well established but they just don't do well. I'd love to do them again but would have to be a specific tank setup I think.

 

[nerdelish]

One more dead today, it's body was curled up which was odd. The store was a special trip, it's over an hour away so I wouldn't be able to make a trek until the weekend. Maybe they can hold on until then. I don't have much hope.

Thanks for answering my post.

 

[Delapool]

Sad news Still nothing that looks wrong with them?


Some ideas that I'm just tossing out here:


-small water changes only (eg 20%). I found large >50% water changes seemed to stress them.
-you could try running carbon or api zeolite if you have it. I thought I noticed a difference there but no guarantee.


-only have slow water flow.


- if you have these, you could try api stress coat or I think prime does similar. That's a wild shot as well although I have thought this has helped when I used it.


Really out of ideas. I know what you mean, they are a really nice fish.

 

[nerdelish]

It might be neon tetra disease...but it's weird because one of them gets sick a day and then dies by the end of that day. I am noticing more odd swimming behaviors and a lot of nose down/body tilted up stuff but no noticeable changes to body...though I am not sure if I am missing things or not. They are so small and I am so new that I wonder if I am missing something obvious.

I did a 50% water change today but I will do smaller water changes starting tomorrow.

I don't have the other things mentioned. I do have carbon for my 5 gallon filter that I am using for fishless cycling. I am using a sponge filter in my 10 gallon right now. Would putting a carbon pouch on top of the sponge filter work? I will try it and see.

 

[nerdelish]

They've lost all color except for the blue streak now. Completely clear/white. Would it be more humane to kill them?

 

[Delapool]

I tend to like to go down fighting but totally agree with no point going to bitter end sometimes. Really as suits, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

It does sound bad, the head down suggests loss of control / equilibrium in swim bladder.

You could try carbon overnight and see.

Some light reading on FNTD (bacterial) and NTD (parasite).

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/02/neon-tetra-disease.html?m=1

How are other fish??

 

[nerdelish]

I tried a methylene blue dip for two of them yesterday evening. I lost the third one earlier in the day.

The remaining two seem a bit more colorful and lively today but did not eat.

At this point I'm going to keep trying some of the link's recommended treatments.

Any idea how often one should give the fish a methylene bath or dip?

As for the other fish, I lost one harlequin raspbora yesterday. It must have happened in the night but when I went to bed all were swimming around and looking spry...still keeping an eye on them but the raspbora death was a surprise. I'm hoping it's not my tank/something I am doing wrong...

 

[coralbandit]

Hey this is a tough one!
I really don't see anything?
Do you have a Gh test kit.
Ph can be very deceiving ,and although 7.4 is nothing to worry about I wonder what the real hardness is?

 

[nerdelish]

Hey this is a tough one!
I really don't see anything?
Do you have a Gh test kit.
Ph can be very deceiving ,and although 7.4 is nothing to worry about I wonder what the real hardness is?

The GH is at 3 and the KH is at 2, which is low I know and probably contributed to my initial pH swing.

The methylene blue dip definitely seemed to have worked!

The two remaining tetras are swimming more actively and have much better color. Would it be advisable to dip them again tonight? I'm unsure how much is too much.

 

[Delapool]

Quickly as train stopping.

Pm Matt68005 as I think he does MB dips.

 

[nerdelish]

Quickly as train stopping.

Pm Matt68005 as I think he does MB dips.

Done! Thank you.

 

[nerdelish]

Well, the last two are still alive! I have been doing a Methylene Blue dip every evening. The next day they are very active and then at night they look sickly again. Still not eating. One is starting to look like it has a bloated belly.

I also bought some Stress Guard and added that to the water after my evening water change (I have been doing daily water changes as well 20-30%). Hopefully it will help.

 

[nerdelish]

Could it be a reaction to chloramines? I have been using api tapwater conditioner to treat my tank. I just noticed that the dosage I was using doesn't treat chloramines. I don't know if I have chloramines or not....but could that be a possibility?

 

[Matt68005]

Tetrahymena, NTDs, is pretty unimistakable. Google it for pics. They get a brown lesion on their skin, and die pretty painfully. Also, its pretty impossible to kill all the parasite, so best bet is to stearilize everything especially substrate and start over again. I can't tell from a picture of a dead fish, but the lesions are pretty hard to miss.
It does sound like some sort of parasite or water quality issue. As to which one, i cant say for sure so i don't want to misadvise you.

 

[nerdelish]

Well, my rasboras are starting to die now. Sigh.

I am not seeing any lesions so would it seem more likely to be water quality now?

I do have a hospital tank so would it be best to catch all fish and try to treat with some parasite medicine? If so, do you have any recommendations? I tried to PM you Matt68005 but your inbox was full.

I'd rather not lose them all. Guppy seems to be fine.