Sick Fish or overly worried Mama? Not finding answers on my own.

[Margie3689]

Hello everyone!
I come looking for some advice on my Fancy Guppy that I've had for about a month now. I am a fairly new aquarium hobbiest. I had a successful Freshwater tank when I was a child for a few years and have now decided to take it up again. I have a 10 gallon (largest my apt complex will allow). It has a heater and is maintained at a 78°F temp. It has a Whisper PF10 active carbon filter. It's set up with substrate and several self soft plants that I got at the pet store. I didn't want any plastic plants harming my guppies beautiful fins. I did a fishless cycle for about a month and also used Tetra Safe Start. My water conditions are at 7.6 pH, 0- 0.25 ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and 0 Nitrate.

I use the API Freshwater Master Kit to test my water. I've tested once to twice weekly lately as I've been closely monitoring my tank. I do also use a water conditioner and stress coat replenished when I do water changes.

Now onto the fishes. I purchased 4 male guppies (I don't want any fry) about a month ago (a month after the fishless cycle). All appeared to be lively healthy fish when I got them. I acclimated them using the floating bag adding 1/2 cup every half hour for 2 hours method. I tested the water in the bag and in the aquarium so I could minimize the shock as much as possible.
The guppies did alright for a few days then one of them began to develop a fungus (cottony growth) and tail rot. Before I was able to get medication, the fish died. After removing the dead fish I did a 20% water change. The next day another one of the guppies too began to act lethargic and showed some fungus. This time I did have some Pimafix but no quarantine tank. I hesitantly treated the whole tank figuring the filter might take out the medication gradually and I'd just treat daily as suggested on the bottle. I did under do it though because I was afraid of over dosing them. I also added an air stone to add more oxygen to the water.
I did 15% water changes each day while I was treating the tank and also began using Melafix along with the Pimafix. The 2nd fish which only had a small amount of fungus developed dropsy and after that there say no saving him. The day after the 3rd fish also began to act I'll, no fungus this time but it also developed dropsy and died. During this time I had a horrible issue with cloudy water. The water would get super cloudy within a day but no spikes in ammonia, pH, nitrites or nitrates. Now I'm on my final fish.
I thought it too was going to suffer the same fate but a week later he's still alive. I stopped medicating the tank but continued daily water changes alternating between 15 and 20%. I do use a siphon on the gravel. The water clarity has significantly increased. Levels are still good. My last guppy is not showing any signs of fungus, or dropsy. I have noticed his tail fin is looking improved.
What worries me is he does occasionally clamp is top fin. And he's been way less active. He doesn't sit at the bottom of the tank but I do find him hovering at the top slanted with his mouth to the surface almost. I worried the tank lacked oxygen. I turn on the air stone for a while during the day. He will sometimes chase the bubbles and after his food (I only feed him 1 daily very small amount. Fed him a deshelled pea in case he was constipated and netted out any uneaten food that wasnt eaten within 3 minutes) and occasionally he does explore his tank and nibble on things but still not as much as I've seen him seen him do before. His favorite spot is right behind the filter which has a lot that hides him perfectly. He sits there most of the day.

I'm at my wits end! I'm trying to Do everything by the book. Levels are good, temp is good, plenty of other places to hide. Is it possible there's something still wrong with my tank or is my guppy just being shy now that he doesn't have a school to be with? I'm hesitant to add any new fish of my tank is still not in ideal condition. I'm sorry for the lengthy post but felt all the background info was crucial . I've included a pic taken today. The orange blur is my guppy not hiding lol. I just want my fish to be happy and healthy! Thank you!

 

[Fishfur]

When you did the cycle, did you get readings of nitrite and nitrate after the ammonia readings ? Unless you have a lot of plants, it's a bit unusual to have zero nitrates, but not impossible by any means.

Usually, you have ammonia readings for a few weeks, then you see nitrites show up and spike high, then eventually you get nitrates showing up too. Then the nitrites should come down, eventually to zero. Thereafter, you need to feed ammonia daily until you get fish, to maintain the BB that have grown in the filter.

Guppies are, as are many fish today, highly inbred, and thus may have weaknesses that are not obvious to the naked eye. But if the tank was cycled, to lose three of four fish so soon is a bit disturbing. Dropsy is often associated with poor water conditions but it can be idiopathic, that is, have no known cause. It's possible the tank they came from was poorly kept.

As for the carbon in the filter, it is generally not needed. It's used to remove odours, colour or some medications from water, but otherwise really should not be there. You don't have to buy the manufacturer's refills. You can cut filter sponge to fit and add some filter floss. Squeeze them out in old tank water to clean them. Sponges last years, floss lasts months before it gets too raggedy to bother using again, and you can also add some ceramic media as well, which is rinsed and swished in tank water to clean it. A mesh bag is the usual way to contain it. All grow BB colonies nicely.

Oxygen is not usually an issue unless the water is over 80.. personally I'd keep the tank a bit cooler.. about 76. The air stone just agitates the water at the surface, and the breaking bubbles add area, which helps increase the gas exchange that takes place there. So you should have plenty of oxygen between that and the plants.

Do you know what plants you have ? Are they low light types ? Just wondering, as if they are the more demanding ones, and you don't have the light they need, they may not do well. They'll need some feeding, possibly, especially if any have crowns, like crypts do. They need fert' tabs in the substrate to look their best.

If this last fish continues to do ok for a couple of weeks, you might try a few more, but test daily after adding new fish to be certain the filter is handling the new load of fish waste, for at least the first few days after new fish go in.

Try to get the ones that are liveliest and never buy one with any visible deformities to the body.

 

[Margie3689]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post! When I did the cycle I did have a spike in both nitrates and nitrites but it started to go away quickly. I didn't use pure ammonia though just fish food. Maybe I didn't have enough ammonia? I did it for a long time though. Maybe that could explain why my tank became so unbearably cloudy. It both looked and smelled dreadful! The water changes were not helping. None of the plants I have in the tank are real since I am not experienced in live tank plants. I just got soft silk pants from the pet store instead. It's really a shame about guppies because they are so beautiful!! My choices in fish are limited having a 10 gallon. I don't want to over crowd but I also want a more lively tank. I did worry the temp might be too high but it doesn't have a way to adjust the temp. Should I buy a new heater? I could turn it off but it does drop to about 72 without it. I'm afraid the fluctuating temperature would stress out the fish. I'm so grateful for the reply!

 

[Fishfur]

I think you had a bacterial bloom, which can cause an ammonia spike, which would damage the fish.

This is a link to an article that's quite good, explains blooms and the causes. I think too much fish food, gone bad, caused the bloom.

Heterotrophic Bacteria and Their Practical Application in a Freshwater Aquarium

If this fish lives, he may be able to get your filter cycled, either again, or back in shape. Without live plants, you should always see nitrates. Ideally, ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate around 20ppm. Up to 50 ppm is considered safe. Water changes are what controls nitrate, not the filter. The filter produces nitrates as the final change from ammonia, so without plants to use some of it up, water changes are the only way to keep it in check.

It may be you were cycled, but if you have no nitrates now, you may not be cycled now. So the guppy may be able to get the cycle back for you, with some time.

Read the article, see if it makes sense to you. The bacteria in a bloom reproduce very very fast, and if you don't correct the cause, it won't go away. It would be the reason for the nasty smell.. you may even have anaerobic decomp going on under the gravel.

Either vacuum the gravel really well or stir it up.. if you see bubbles of gas coming up with the crud and dirt, that's anaerobic decomp of too much food that's gone bad down there. Once cleaned up, it should not return, but it can also contribute to a bloom problem

As for heat.. there are fish that can take temps down to 72.Guppies and Danios can both handle these temps and shrimp love cooler water. Glow light danios are quite pretty, so are the spotted Kyathit danios, one of my faves.

Have you thought of cherry shrimp ? Very entertaining and you can have a lot of them in a tank that size. Not costly unless you get the painted fire or fire red types and they breed easily, so you get baby shrimps, really cute.

You could have those and a few guppies too, for that matter. Guppies would eat some of the baby shrimp but not all of them, and you can give them some rocks or caves to hide in or under which will help. And male guppies can't swim nearly as fast as the females can, so they are less able predators on baby shrimp too.

 

[Margie3689]

This seems to make the most sense. It is a bit over whelming but from what I gathered it fits. Something not mentioned in the article was phosphates (in some pH regulators such as sechems neutral regulator) I found out they can cause an algae outbreak. My tank is not in sunlight and has LED lights so no algae but is it possible that caused a bacterial bloom? I really didn't feed them too often, but I did use flakes which break down too quickly in my opinion. I might change to granules. Other than scratching my head about the cause, everything else in that article seems to fit. I'm still confused about the filter. Should I clean the filter? Will this harm my bio filter?

 

[Margie3689]

As for heat.. there are fish that can take temps down to 72.Guppies and Danios can both handle these temps and shrimp love cooler water. Glow light danios are quite pretty, so are the spotted Kyathit danios, one of my faves.

Have you thought of cherry shrimp ? Very entertaining and you can have a lot of them in a tank that size. Not costly unless you get the painted fire or fire red types and they breed easily, so you get baby shrimps, really cute.

You could have those and a few guppies too, for that matter. Guppies would eat some of the baby shrimp but not all of them, and you can give them some rocks or caves to hide in or under which will help. And male guppies can't swim nearly as fast as the females can, so they are less able predators on baby shrimp too.

I just saw this part! I love you for it!! I love the idea of the shrimp! That would be amazing! I've never had them either but they look so cute. I'll have to read up on them to see how to care for them properly because that definitely sounds great. I was considering some Danios next since they are hardier. Just watching my last guppy for now. Thank you SO MUCH! I tried to thank you on the little thingamabob but it wasn't letting me. So thank you thank you thank you!

 

[Fishfur]

Well, the thing is, if you are not seeing readings of nitrite and nitrate, you don't have a cycled filter any more. sigh.. bummer. If you have nitrites, then you have the first of the two species of BB. If you also have nitrates, you have the second species of BB. But if you have none of either, you may not have any BB left now. Testing is the only way to be sure of this.

So I would clean the filter, but rinse the media out in treated water, that's been dechlorinated, as the tank water is perhaps not ideal for this at the moment. Usually you use water from a water change to rinse media, so as not to harm the BB.

Then, since you have the guppy, you'd do a fish in cycle. Test daily, when you see ammonia reach .25, do a water change to bring it down, so the fish is not harmed. Keep testing and doing water changes and you should see nitrites begin to show, and rise. Do more water changes.. read the fish in cycle information here as well. I've never done fish in cycling.. I've been fortunate to have aged media to use and have not had to wait for cycling.. lucky me.

But once nitrites show up, you're half way there. Keep up water changes and you'll see nitrates, and then the nitrites should start to come down.. eventually you will see zero ammonia, zero nitrite, and around 20 ppm of nitrate. At that point you can add more fish, slowly, or shrimp if you want. Nice thing about shrimp is they have so low a bioload compared to fish.

But you can add a couple of new fish, check the readings to be sure the filter is coping with the new load, and from there, hopefully, all will be well. Wish you luck. It was easier back in high school, we knew nothing of nitrogen cycles, the filter media got tossed at every cleaning and replaced, and water was just aged, no dechlorinators existed. Fish mostly did ok.. surprisingly enough.

 

[Fishfur]

You are most welcome.