Sick Goldfish

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vonkster

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
25
Hello everyone,

I currently have two small goldfish in a 29 gallon tank. I use an emperor 400 filter. My nitrite levels are 0 and my ammonia levels are 0 or maybe slightly above (not above .25 ppm though). Nitrates are maybe around 30 ppm and my ph is between 7.4 and 8 (it is difficult to make an exact reading). Currently, the temperature in my tank is about 76 degrees F. My fish have lived in this tank for about three months now. I have typically fed my goldfish a combination of cucumber, celery, and flake food. Water changes - I used to change my water 2 times a week (15 -20 % of the water). Recently I have been told to change the water once a month. Therefore, I have not done a water change the past couple of weeks.

Recently, I noticed some brown moss growing in my tank and one of my goldfish sulking. I measured my water conditions and found my ammonia levels were high. Therefore, I treated the problem by putting some amquel plus and some API Stress Zyme in the tank. This combination seems to have corrected the water conditions; however, my goldfish was still sulking. After sharing this problem, someone advised me to treat the fish for Ick and to feed my goldfish less food. I used API Super Ick Cure which seemed to get my goldfish healthy again after the first dose. When I put the second dose of medication in my tank, however, my fish seems to be sulking again.

I use a filter with carbon in it which may reduce the effectiveness of this treatment. I am not sure what I can do about that though since the carbon is inside the filter!

Any advice on how to get my fish healthy again?
 
What kind of goldfish are they and how big?

Also, I hope someone else can help you more, but I'd go back to a weekly pwc schedule.
 
You are being offered awful advice. First, start changing their water- frequently. No more meds. No more chemicals. Your fish are sick from their unhealthy water. You mentioned high ammonia levels- how high exactly and what are you using to test (liquid or strips)? Make sure you are grav vac to remove waste & debris. Temperature match & properly condition all new water. Once you are able to get their tank healthy, change no less than 50% 2x a week. Here's a guide I posted
on another site- it covers care, water, diet, etc. Toss the flakes, too.

http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html
 
About the water changes - When my ammonia levels spiked the first time, I was told I was removing too much water and therefore, too much bacteria out of the tank. This caused the nitrogen cycle to stop which lead to an increase in ammonia levels. If I do 50 percent water changes 2 times a week, won't that be bad for the nitrogen cycle?

jlk, I am not trying to say you are wrong or argue with you...but I would like to understand why changing the water that often is beneficial? Water changes remove nitrates from the aquarium and if my nitrate levels are normal, wouldn't doing fewer water changes be beneficial based on what I wrote in the first paragraph?

As for my ammonia levels...I can't give you an exact answer. I use an API freshwater test kit and sometimes the color I get for a result can change depending on what light I put the test tube under. Sometimes the water seems to be perfectly yellow (0 ammonia) and sometimes the exact same test result seems to have a little bit of green in it (you have ammonia in your water). I posted a maximum of .25 ppm to give an honest range of what it might be; on the other hand, my ammonia levels could be perfectly normal.
 
vonkster said:
About the water changes - When my ammonia levels spiked the first time, I was told I was removing too much water and therefore, too much bacteria out of the tank. This caused the nitrogen cycle to stop which lead to an increase in ammonia levels. If I do 50 percent water changes 2 times a week, won't that be bad for the nitrogen cycle?

jlk, I am not trying to say you are wrong or argue with you...but I would like to understand why changing the water that often is beneficial? Water changes remove nitrates from the aquarium and if my nitrate levels are normal, wouldn't doing fewer water changes be beneficial based on what I wrote in the first paragraph?

As for my ammonia levels...I can't give you an exact answer. I use an API freshwater test kit and sometimes the color I get for a result can change depending on what light I put the test tube under. Sometimes the water seems to be perfectly yellow (0 ammonia) and sometimes the exact same test result seems to have a little bit of green in it (you have ammonia in your water). I posted a maximum of .25 ppm to give an honest range of what it might be; on the other hand, my ammonia levels could be perfectly normal.

The beneficial bacteria doesn't live in the water column. It lives on the filter media and in the substrate and on the decorations in the tank. Removing water is beneficial as long as you put in dechlorinated temp matched water.
 
What kind of filter are you using. I have 4 Goldie's in 36 gal. I change about a third of the water once a week. I use no carbon in my filters. I have two aqua clear filters running with double sponges and bio media only because that is where you bacteria lives. I never change the filters at all only rinse them probably once a month. I recommend aqua clear.
 
I am using an emperor 400 filter. I was happy to get an 'over matched' filter for this tank since goldfish are supposed to be messy.
 
vonkster said:
I am using an emperor 400 filter. I was happy to get an 'over matched' filter for this tank since goldfish are supposed to be messy.

I use that on my 55 gal community. I'd say on 29 gal you have enough filtration.
 
About the water changes - When my ammonia levels spiked the first time, I was told I was removing too much water and therefore, too much bacteria out of the tank. This caused the nitrogen cycle to stop which lead to an increase in ammonia levels. If I do 50 percent water changes 2 times a week, won't that be bad for the nitrogen cycle?

jlk, I am not trying to say you are wrong or argue with you...but I would like to understand why changing the water that often is beneficial? Water changes remove nitrates from the aquarium and if my nitrate levels are normal, wouldn't doing fewer water changes be beneficial based on what I wrote in the first paragraph?

As for my ammonia levels...I can't give you an exact answer. I use an API freshwater test kit and sometimes the color I get for a result can change depending on what light I put the test tube under. Sometimes the water seems to be perfectly yellow (0 ammonia) and sometimes the exact same test result seems to have a little bit of green in it (you have ammonia in your water). I posted a maximum of .25 ppm to give an honest range of what it might be; on the other hand, my ammonia levels could be perfectly normal.

Water changes will not affect your beneficial bacteria nor harm your cycle AS LONG as you temperature match & properly condition the new water. While I dont follow breeders standards for goldfish water changes (40-100% DAILY), I do follow hefty water change schedules. 100% & 75% a week miimum. And my one 55g only has two large goldfish right now. And my tanks are well planted. Never had an issue keeping my tanks happily cycled. The more healthy water you can offer them, the happier & healthier they will be.

I will have to track down the exact quote because I dont have it in front of me right now, but a very well known breeder gave this example (this is not verbatim, mind you). If you went to the bathroom in a glass of water & someone asked you to drink it, would you? Now replace 50% of the water with clean water, would you drink it now? How about 75%? You get the idea. Fish live, breath & eat in their own waste. Provide them with healthy, clean water if you want healthy, happy fish.

Right now, you tank is not healthy and likely has an excess of dissolved solids from lack of water changes as well as depleted buffers, electrolytes & minerals necessary for a healthy & happy fish & a stable tank. In addition, you have a slew of chemicals thrown in there & likely have not grav vac'd in quite a long time if your only changing the water once a month. And your fish are TELLING you the only way they know how that they are very unhappy through their behavior.

I am not suggesting that you have to change 100% of their water right now (at this point it will likely put them into shock) but start changing their water regularly & frequently until you can get your tank & fish to a happy, healthy place. Water changes will also help to remove the chemicals, replenish lost buffers, minerals & electrolytes, reduce nitrates & remove TDS in addition to the waste & debris thats likely in the substrate. Your fish will thank you for it!!! :)
 
First, I wanted to thank everyone for their advice. I think my fish have improved due to the frequent water changes.

Unfortunately, my fish are sulking again. I think this is due to a brown algae that is growing in my tank. I have briefly tested ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph levels and they all appear normal. I plan on getting rid of this algae; however, can anyone tell me what is causing it and what I can do to keep it out of my tank?
 
your algae problem is most likely rooted @ your feeding. simply put, you are overfeeding your fish. fish do not have to be fed every day, and fasting them occasionally is beneficial. also, i reccomend changing 30-50% of your water once -twice a week, vaccing ur gravel each time. i have a 9" Oscar and a 7" Pleco in a 40 gallon breeder, both are messy fish so i vac them, changing up to 50% of their water twice a week, and once a month, i do a 75%, but thats just me. both my fish are happy and healthy. do get rid of the algae u could try to get something that will eat it, which usually wont work, or reduce ur feeding and the amount of sun/length of time the light is on as these can also cause algae growth. hope i could help! i was new t this all a year ago, and i know its confusing but ill figure out what works best for you and your fish! good luck!
 
This is a brown covering on stuff, correct? Its not algae but diatoms. Diatom outbreaks are very common in newly established tanks. They are unsightly but harmless. Prior to a water change, wipe them off everything. They will come back (and continue to come back) for awhile until your tank becomes more established. Overfeeding really has nothing to do with them but you shouldnt be overfeeding anyway. Nothing to be concerned about.

Now, your fish's behavior is something to be concerned about. What are your exact numbers for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph? What has your water schedule been so far? Did you recently reduce it? What exactly are you feeding (brand, type food, other foods) and how often?

@Oscarchic, goldfish do not have 'true' stomachs that can store food and do not benefit from only being fed every other day. This would be a starvation diet for a fancy. They are grazers and their digestive tract functions optimally with smaller, more frequent meals and lots of vegetative matter to keep things running smoothly. :)
 
Jlk, it is difficult to predict what they are exactly. My ph level always seems too high for my "low ph test kit" to get an accurate reading. Therefore, I use my "high ph test kit" and the resulting color suggests a ph that is to low for that scale to read...go figure. I would say that my ph is probably somewhere around 7.5. Ammonia and nitrites are both zero. I was surprised to find that my nitrates are high. Maybe about 35 or 45 ppm. I think this could be a good clue because I usually have no problem keeping my tank in the 20-30 ppm ballpark . Perhaps whatever is making my fish sick could be creating lots of nitrates?

I have mostly followed the water schedule advised by this forum. I likely did a 70 percent water change last weekend, a 50 percent water change on Wednesday, and a 70 percent water change today.

As far as food, this is something that could be improved. I admit that I continue to feed my fish cucumber after it has spoiled in my refrigerator. Maybe this is causing the problem? I feed them cucumber and a pinch of top fin goldfish flakes twice a day. I also used to feed them just cucumber for a meal, but after I read your guide jlk, I have included the goldfish flakes until the hikari saki (I think that is how you spell it???) I ordered comes in the mail. Dietary improvements should be taking place shortly! :) Do you think the spoiled cucumber could be making my fish sick?
 
Your ph sounds fine as long as its fairly steady. Nitrates are a bit on the high side for fancies and will cause them to bottom-sit but nothing that water changes wont help. Ok, would you eat spoiled cucumber? I wouldnt either and you really shouldnt offer it to your fish. I buy the bags of generic frozen, microvable veggies. Nuke them & put them in a tupperware container & they should last a week in your fridge. Give deshelled peas & broccoli florets a try. Only offer them lots of veggies for the next couple of days until your food arrives (and continue to offer them veggies daily after it arrives as well). They wont starve, it will give them something to munch on and it will also maintain water quality. Ammonia is the result of the breakdown of protiens- the main source of protiens is fish food although fish will start utilizing their own body for protien when they are starved (same as in any other animal). They will be fine for a couple of days with limited protien. Veggies contain very low levels protien in comparison to fish food. Hope this helps! :)
 
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