Remember nitrates up to 20ppm are acceptable, but nitrites should be 0.
Sluggish Betta
- Thread starter twixie09
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Remember nitrates up to 20ppm are acceptable, but nitrites should be 0.
Okay. So today, I noticed him rubbing against the sides of the tank and acting skittish. He actually came to the surface to eat and seems to be more active, but I'm afraid that might be because he's irritated. I'm pretty sure at this point that it's either Velvet or Ich. (It may just be me being paranoid, but I saw what I thought was a white spot near his eye). Either way, I know the salt won't hurt.
I got an airstone filter, nitrate test kit, pH test kit, and aquarium salt. Ammonia was at .25, so after I got everything, I did a 60% water change, put in the airstone, and filled the tank, adding a little bit of salt to each gallon. Currently, the Nitrate level is at zero, pH is 7.6, and Ammonia is somewhere between 0 and .25 (it hasn't been quite an hour since I changed the water, so I will test again in a bit). I have pH up and pH down. Should I use the pH down? Is 7.6 too "basey" for him? Water temp has slowly been rising. It's at about 81/82 right now.
I got an airstone filter, nitrate test kit, pH test kit, and aquarium salt. Ammonia was at .25, so after I got everything, I did a 60% water change, put in the airstone, and filled the tank, adding a little bit of salt to each gallon. Currently, the Nitrate level is at zero, pH is 7.6, and Ammonia is somewhere between 0 and .25 (it hasn't been quite an hour since I changed the water, so I will test again in a bit). I have pH up and pH down. Should I use the pH down? Is 7.6 too "basey" for him? Water temp has slowly been rising. It's at about 81/82 right now.
If it is ich...raise the temp a degree or two every few hours...as for ph down, I think most people would agree not to use it...fish would rathe have a stable ph than one that is "recommended" a swing in ph would stress him out even more....
Well actually salt does hurt. Your cories might not even live through the salt treatment. That's why I say to be sure. If he's rubbing on stuff now, since he already had symptoms, I'd say it's velvet. Shine him with a flashlight again and compare to pics online to be sure.
pH really doesn't matter here, it's Nitrite that's the concern. Ammonia and nitrite are what will poison your fish during the cycling.
Never use pH up or down...with any fish. It burns their gills and can throw off your water chemistry. Your pH is fine, and it's not even stablized yet because you are not done with your cycle. Even if it stabilized higher than where it is now, it would still be just fine for your betta. They need a stable pH, the number itself isn't so important.
pH really doesn't matter here, it's Nitrite that's the concern. Ammonia and nitrite are what will poison your fish during the cycling.
Never use pH up or down...with any fish. It burns their gills and can throw off your water chemistry. Your pH is fine, and it's not even stablized yet because you are not done with your cycle. Even if it stabilized higher than where it is now, it would still be just fine for your betta. They need a stable pH, the number itself isn't so important.
Actually that's just too fast..I raise 1-2 degrees every 12 hours max.
Hmm, as I previously said, I would slowly work your way up to atleast 1 tsp per gallon. Build this up slowly every 12 hours as well. When treating with salt I build up the salinity over the course of atleast a couple days.
I think it was like 1/4 tsp/gal...should I change the water again? -.- I've heard both ways, not that I don't trust your opinion, but I heard they do okay in a little bit of salt, and I heard it harms them. GRRRRRRR. Why do people who know nothing about a certain subject INSIST on informing people like me of incorrect info?? I hate to look like an idiot, but I've heard more than one opinion each way, and figured the salt would help. :/ I feel like a dummy now.
I think it was like 1/4 tsp/gal...should I change the water again? -.- I've heard both ways, not that I don't trust your opinion, but I heard they do okay in a little bit of salt, and I heard it harms them. GRRRRRRR. Why do people who know nothing about a certain subject INSIST on informing people like me of incorrect info?? I hate to look like an idiot, but I've heard more than one opinion each way, and figured the salt would help. :/ I feel like a dummy now.
Wait - no - this is good. 1/4 tsp per gallon is fine to start. That is slowly working up, I thought you meant you went straight to 1tsp per gallon - which is the amount you want but you want to build slowly, so just keep track of exactly what and when you are adding.
Bettas do better than cories with the salt, yes, but all fish suffer organ and tissue damage from prolonged exposure to salt. There is always going to be the hobbyists out there, and certainly lfs employees, who will say salt usage is actually good for some fish. The truth of it is, fish either need marine salt, or don't, and then there's some that can go either way. But aquarium salt is only for treating sick fish
Hopefully the cories are going to do OK with the salt. You'll just have to wait and see. It's the pits, but you've just gotta treat the tank anyway Since I've added salt to the water, when I test for ammonia, nitrates and pH, should I be comparing it to the saltwater results card or the freshwater? Because if I read off of the saltwater card, everything looks fine. But on the freshwater card, it's all wonky and weird.
Well I guess the Ammonia is the only one that's acting stupid. Compared to the freshwater card, it says ~.25. Compared to saltwater, it says 0. I did a 60% water change yesterday, and a 40% water change today...if the freshwater results are correct, why is my ammonia staying above zero?? The nitrate card looks the same either way, and levels are at zero no matter what card I compare to, and pH is a weird blue. I think it's somewhere in between 7.2 and 7.8 (there's nothing in between on the card).
Yes the ammonia is not going to go away for quite a long time. Cycling with fish is a long process that is really hard on the fish. Then nirtrite which is even more toxic will come in as well. That is why you will hear "fishless cycling" recommended so often. When you cycle with fish, you typically need daily water changes, if not more than one every day, sometimes for over a month. Not sure if I already sent you these links but this is the info you need to know about the cycling of your tank and how to hopefully not lose your fish to the process.
The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!
What kind of cories do you have? How long ago did you purchase them?
I have a few points I'd like to share to encourage you to return your cories:
1. They will likely die or be damaged from the cycling
2. They will likely die or be damaged from the salt
3. It is highly likely the type of cory you have is not even suitable for a 10 gal tank. If you have albino, emerald/green, julii, or panda cories, they are going to get too big and far to active for such a small tank. Also, they are shoalers that should be kept in groups of 6, no less than 4.
If I remember correctly - the betta came from a 1 gallon tank, yes? Did that tank have a filter? If so, is it still wet? You could use filter media from an exsisting tank to help speed up the cycle on your new tank.
The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling
I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!
What kind of cories do you have? How long ago did you purchase them?
I have a few points I'd like to share to encourage you to return your cories:
1. They will likely die or be damaged from the cycling
2. They will likely die or be damaged from the salt
3. It is highly likely the type of cory you have is not even suitable for a 10 gal tank. If you have albino, emerald/green, julii, or panda cories, they are going to get too big and far to active for such a small tank. Also, they are shoalers that should be kept in groups of 6, no less than 4.
If I remember correctly - the betta came from a 1 gallon tank, yes? Did that tank have a filter? If so, is it still wet? You could use filter media from an exsisting tank to help speed up the cycle on your new tank.
Up until yesterday, ammonia had been low... :/
I have peppered corys. I'm not a fan of returning animals, especially if my fish has something contagious, because if they somehow have whatever it is, it will spread to the others at the pet store. I bought them at Petco, and I would hate to take them back there, of all places. (Mine takes pretty good care of their fish, but still...) And I get attached easily. :/ Also, in one of those articles you linked, it says if I test once or more a day and consistently do water changes, they have a large chance of making it through. I will dedicate to frequent water changes and tests every day until the water is stable. I was a dummy and read off of the aquarium directions, which states that 24 hours is enough time to run the tank (which I obviously know now is not correct).
As with the salt, I haven't added anymore since I did yesterday and I've done two large changes since.
I did NOT have a filter on my one gal (like I said in my first post, don't think I'm terrible. I didn't do a whole lot of research, but I'm much more educated now). I wish I did have an old filter, but I don't. I heard you can speed up the cycling process by adding a filter sock? What's that? Also, my neighbors have a 20 gallon fish tank with all sorts of fish. Would it be worth a shot asking if I can have some of their gravel to put in my tank? I heard that helps, also.
One last thing: looking through old (blurry) pictures of my betta when I first got him, it looks as if his coloring has always been weird (faded on the bottom and a little silver on the gills). I can't believe I never noticed it before. I'm starting to think that the silver is part of his natural coloring...though I have noticed a white-ish spot on his eye. I posted a couple more pictures of him on my DeviantART. You can find them here: http://twixie09.deviantart.com/art/Silver-gills-210318563 and here: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Silver-210318741. He has been swimming more lately (not just scratching) and eating more...maybe he's getting better? idk The corys seem happy as can be; they're making bubble nests and swimming around all the time.
I have peppered corys. I'm not a fan of returning animals, especially if my fish has something contagious, because if they somehow have whatever it is, it will spread to the others at the pet store. I bought them at Petco, and I would hate to take them back there, of all places. (Mine takes pretty good care of their fish, but still...) And I get attached easily. :/ Also, in one of those articles you linked, it says if I test once or more a day and consistently do water changes, they have a large chance of making it through. I will dedicate to frequent water changes and tests every day until the water is stable. I was a dummy and read off of the aquarium directions, which states that 24 hours is enough time to run the tank (which I obviously know now is not correct).
As with the salt, I haven't added anymore since I did yesterday and I've done two large changes since.
I did NOT have a filter on my one gal (like I said in my first post, don't think I'm terrible. I didn't do a whole lot of research, but I'm much more educated now). I wish I did have an old filter, but I don't. I heard you can speed up the cycling process by adding a filter sock? What's that? Also, my neighbors have a 20 gallon fish tank with all sorts of fish. Would it be worth a shot asking if I can have some of their gravel to put in my tank? I heard that helps, also.
One last thing: looking through old (blurry) pictures of my betta when I first got him, it looks as if his coloring has always been weird (faded on the bottom and a little silver on the gills). I can't believe I never noticed it before. I'm starting to think that the silver is part of his natural coloring...though I have noticed a white-ish spot on his eye. I posted a couple more pictures of him on my DeviantART. You can find them here: http://twixie09.deviantart.com/art/Silver-gills-210318563 and here: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Silver-210318741. He has been swimming more lately (not just scratching) and eating more...maybe he's getting better? idk The corys seem happy as can be; they're making bubble nests and swimming around all the time.
You weren't a dummy. Most of us did that in the beginnning
Keep in mind Petco sells diseased fish..when a shipment comes in with ich they begin the course of treatment and begin selling them that very same moment, so as far as I'm concerned there should be no guilt there.
Your cories have very small scales, that's why they are actually often referred to as scaleless fish, and the salt will burn them, and they are already being burned by the ammonia. The more fish in the tank during cycling = the longer the cycle will take = the longer the fish are exposed to the ammonia and nitrite. No matter how frequently you do the water changes during cycling with fish, you won't be able to eliminate the toxins from the water until the cycle is complete. A fish like a betta is able to withstand this process easier than a cory is. Peppered cories are very active catfish that grow to over 2". IMO, keeping them in a group too small and in a tank too small is not right, but that is your choice, and I've said what I will say on the matter now
I haven't found gravel to be tremendously helpful, but yes it does hold beneficial bacteria. If you could get some used filter media from them though, that could potentially speed you up so you just have a small mini-cycle or no cycle at all. Uh not sure what a filter sock is...there's little nylon bags that you would use like to put used gravel or something in but, otherwise I don't know.
I could only get the first pic to open and I just see silver coloration on him there, nothing indicating velvet. Velvet would look like a metallic/copper dusting over his scales when you shine a flashlight on him, and it often starts on the head/gill area...just a sheen over his natural coloring not a colored spot.
If he does have velvet, this small amount of salt for a small period of time will not have healed him, and his symptoms will come back. So I think soon enough you'll know for sure. If he continues to be better, maybe it was just a fluke, if he gets worse again, do an entire cycle of salt & heat treatment.
twixie09's deviantART gallery Try that.
How much gravel do you think will be sufficient, if it would even work? I'm pretty sure they don't have a used filter that they would give me. :/
Also, I'm thinking the main reason why he has been spitting out his food is because it's probably expired. I went out and bought him some Hikari Betta Bio-Gold baby pellets, so we'll see if he'll eat them. They're like half the size of his old pellets, and they're NOT expired.
How much gravel do you think will be sufficient, if it would even work? I'm pretty sure they don't have a used filter that they would give me. :/
Also, I'm thinking the main reason why he has been spitting out his food is because it's probably expired. I went out and bought him some Hikari Betta Bio-Gold baby pellets, so we'll see if he'll eat them. They're like half the size of his old pellets, and they're NOT expired.
