Sorry, another ICH question

[Daren100]

Everything in the tank is fine - water parameters etc. - but we have been hit by Ich in the last week or so.

We initially lost 3 Rummynose Tetras and our other 3 were full of spots and not looking too healthy.

Having read the excellent advice on here I decided it was best to go for heat treatment and slowly raise the temperature to 30 degrees or slightly above.

The good news is that after 3 or 4 days of temps at 30+ the spots on the Rummynoses have gone and they seem to we whizzing around and enjoying themselves as are the rest of the fish.

The bad news is that 2 of the Clown Loaches have developed spots that don't seem to ge going just yet.
I've read that Clowns are more vulnerable to Ich but is it natural for this to come out after the Rummynoses seem to be getting better?
No other fish in the tank (Barbs, Rasboras, Glass Catfish and Banded Gara's) seem to be affected.

I plan to keep the temps as they are for at least 2 more weeks to kill the remaining bacteria.
Is it working?
Should I resort to buying some chemical based traetment or stick with the temps?

As always, any help is appreciated.

 

[missileman]

30 is boarderline for heat treatment.
In Fahrenheit 86* is suppose to stop Ich from invading a host. @ 87* (just over 30 celcius) the Ich reproductive cycle is interupted (it is believe that interupting reproduction is sufficient to kill of the infestation) @ 89* (just under 32 celcius) Ich is killed outright.
Now onto other factors,
Is your water evenly heated? you may be reading a higher temp at your thermometer than low in the tank where the Ich reproductive cycle takes place.
Is your thermometer accurate?
Add the fact that heat resistant strains of Ich have been identified that survive temps well above 92* Fahrenheit (33 celcius).
Also consider missdiagnosis, are you really dealing with Ich?
By the way, Ich is not bacteria. It is a single cell parasite.

 

[Daren100]

Thanks for your help.
We have 2 thermometers as well as the one on the heater.
Both in the tank - either sides - say just over 30 degrees, so 87F+ ish and the heater says 32 degrees - 90F.
Looking at the pictures in the ICH thread I am almost certain this is what it is.
If so, any suggestion how long I should persist with heat treatment? I'd rather not add chemicals if I can help it but if I have no other options...

 

[missileman]

With heat I would continue for 1 week after the last spots are gone.
One other thing. Heat lowers oxygen levels so make sure you have plenty of airation.

 

[Daren100]

Thanks Missile.
We have the air pump on for at least a couple of hours each day to try to negate the heat.

Thanks again

 

[missileman]

My airpumps run 24 hours a day.
If you have a HOB filter you can also lower the water level a few inches so there is some splashing from the return.

 

[Daren100]

Mine used to until they got too noisy!
May have to buy another one as its rattling far too much...

 

[Daren100]

Sorry to bore you all with this again but:

The heat has been at at least 30 (86) and more than usual at 32 (90) and we have had no more fish die. This has been 6 days of heat treatment so far.

However, all 4 Clown Loach still have plenty of spots on them but most of the time seem normal.
They do seem to spend a lot of time sleeping up against the heater though. Is this just Clowns being clowns or a sign of sickness?

Surely, if the heat treatment will work the Clowns should lose their spots fairly soon if they are going to survive?

My Dad says I should 'let them go' for the sake of the rest of the tank but if they have any chance of being ok I can't do that.

Help, again please!

 

[missileman]

If heat is going to work the Ich should be out of the fish by now.
First off are we sure its Ich, if it is then perhaps the spots on the clowns are secondary infections?
When the Ich leave the host it leaves a small open sore that can get infected.
Can you describe the spots?

 

[MichaelsLilGray]

Clowns will find anywhere at all possible to sleep. mine would cram themselves into a small opening on one of the decorations... i found it and removed that spot.. cause one would be up top and i didnt want it to suffocate... so yes they sleep funny lol. as far as the ich goes... it stays in its "spot" stage for a little while.. when it falls off and goes to reproduce in the water is when its venerable to the heat treatment. i personally just use quick cure.. and have never had a problem with it. i have 3 clowns in the tank i treated... and they are doing great. if at all possible a picture of these spots would be great.

 

[Daren100]

Thanks for the replies.
I'm pretty sure it is Ich and have posted a pic (hopefully!)

The spots have come off the Rummynoses and they are flying around now. The Clowns seem perfectly fine, I'm just concerned the spots are still there although they do look to be less than there were a couple of days ago.

The heat at almost 90 degrees shouldn't harm the other fish if I leave it like that for another week or two should it?

Sorry about all the questions... We only got a tank for the missus as she thought it would be relaxing. Yeah, right!

 

[missileman]

Looks like ICH to me.
I hate to say that the heat will not have a negative effect on your fish because I personally don't use heat to treat Ich so I really can't say. Keep the extra air moving as heat does lower the oxygen levels, as you already know.

 

[Daren100]

Thanks again Missile.

I've bought an extra air pump and an air stone and am doing 10 - 20% PCW's every day or so.

Fingers crossed I guess...

 

[MichaelsLilGray]

unfortunately for the loaches.. they have no scales... which makes them prone to the ich bacteria first.. it impacts them the hardest.. so yeah it will take a little longer for this to work..

 

[jim692]

Be patient. You should start seeing results soon.
You shouldn't be seeing any new spots develop on the fish now.
It took me a week for the spots to start to disappear and I left the temp up for 2 weeks after the last spot sighting just to be sure.
I kept my temp at 89'f with 2 heaters in the tank to be safe. Wanted the nice even heat with little bouncing of the temp. If the fish look stressed I believe you can go down to 87'f tho.

 

[Daren100]

Just wanted to post that the spots are now gone without us losing any more fish and they all seem happy.

I will keep the temps high as recommended for a week or so yet.

Thanks to all that helped. Heat treatment does work, wahey!!

 

[Hairy_Harold]

One thing I have learnt not sure if it's coincidence or not but a friend of mine keeps blue rams and she used to get ich a lot with them. One day she went out and bought a uv sterilizer and has never come back. For actual treatment I can't help but might be a useful prevention method for the future.