Spots on Neon Tetras & Platys. Help!

[territerri]

Spots on Neon Tetras & Platys. Help...

• pH = 7.1
• Ammonia = 0-0.25ppm
• Nitrites = 2-5ppm
• Nitrates = 0-5ppm
• 10G tank, contents of which I will transfer into a 25G in the near future;
• Filtration: AquaClear 50 set on the gentlest flow;
• Substrate: 2kg of white (coated) gravel introduced one week ago;
• Animals: 1 Common Pleco (2"), 2 African Dwarf Frogs, 5 Red Platys, 10 Neon Tetras, all of which were introduced to said 10G tank last week;
• As of last week, I had added 2 tsp marine salt as a therapeutic measure, even though my fish weren't sick at the time;
• Plants/deco: 1 plastic plant, 1 Malaysian wood, 9 Hygrophila Polysperma. 3 Amazon Swords (added last night);
• Made amateur mistake of excitedly introducing 8 harlequin rasboras last night. but if i had not done this, i wouldn't have noticed the spots on my fish;
• There are now 5 Platy fry in the mix, approx. 2-4d old;
• (approx. 50% of the tank water was sourced from my 125G RES tank which contains 1 RES, 2 Neon Tetras & 3 Zebra Danios, all of which are healthy. There used to be many more fish but my dear RES ate them -- to be expected. I recently lost an 8" Common Pleco in the RES tank to what was tested to be toxic levels of ammonia & nitrites (i.e. excess bacteria buildup and waste; not enough water changes), & also lack of knowledge that changes in behaviour = illness.)

Last night I noticed at least two of my Neon Tetras' bodies, heads and fins were covered in spots (see pics). At least one of those two was swimming apart from the group. Today, one or two of them are "wobbling" from side to side ever so slightly. I also noticed last night 2-3 of my Platys are also developing tiny spots on their tail fins. The spots appear to be off-white/beige in colour (though it's hard to tell b/c of tannins in the water).

I've read in several threads that adding Marine Salt may help as a general remedy, as well as raising tank temp. I added another 1tsp Marine Salt to the 10G (which added to the existing 2 tsp in there makes a total of 1 tbsp). I realize it's a stronger dose than needed for the Pleco but I'm worried about all the other fish, too.

What type of ailment/s should be ruled out? I hope this lovely community's expertise can help me determine what is going on and what sort of remedies to pick up from my LFS. I will also be taking a water sample to my LFS to be tested, hence the delay in getting water params...

Also, is it worth separating the visibly ailing fish from the rest, when it is highly likely all the other fish are already exposed to something that appears to be contagious?

I promise to QT from now on. Totally not worth the risk of losing all my fish. I just want to make things right for my aquarium.

Any feedback to help my poor fishies, healthy and unhealthy (and frogs and plants, too!), would be much appreciated!

 

[territerri]

Should I be doing a PWC and what percentage?
Or should I just vacuum the gravel to remove the waste?
How often should I be testing the water params?

 

[Oceangirl]

I'm pretty sure thats ich, you have WAY too many fish in there. I think the most effected one won't make it unless you act quickly. You have multiple choice of treatment but some you will need to remove cories, and or shrimp for. I suggest treating the tank, then reconsider your stock.

1. Heat and salt treatment raising the temp, and adding a good amount of aquarium salt (not marine salt)
2. ICH specific treatment a lot of those copper or other stuff not suitable for shrimp/Cories

Good luck

Here is a good guide I use for stocking
AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

 

[eduguy]

Too many fish. Its probably ich.
Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish

 

[territerri]

(Any additional pointers -- or sympathy for a novice -- from others appreciated as well.)

Update w/ questions (I read the ich article provided by eduguy):

1. Yesterday afternoon I picked up a heater from my LFS to bump the temp up to 80.6F. Today I will up it another couple degrees. Also added an air pump to properly oxygenate the water. Also picked up Nox-Ich (0.5% NaCl, 0.5% Malachite Green) and used 1/2 the recommended dosage due to the presence of Tetras and Pleco. As advised, the carbon was removed from my power filter.
2. In my initial plea I interchanged the terms "marine" & "aquarium" without knowing there was a difference -- this was pointed out by oceangirl... I checked the label of the salt I used, and it is indeed Aquarium Salt... thanks for ensuring I'm using the right one!
3. Unfortunately, there was one Neon Tetra casualty this morning, and a second one appears to be circling the drain this evening, so to speak I feel terrible for them!
4. What has your ich experience been in terms of survival rate of live plants, of unaffected fish, ADF's, Plecos when they are subjected to ich treatment?
5. What sort of behaviour should I watch for in my fish if they are less tolerant of the raised temperatures?
6. Now that I've started the Nox-Ich treatment, should I follow through with it? The packaging instructs to treat for 3 days in a row, wait one day, then if there continue to be symptoms, do another cycle of 3 consecutive days. What symptoms are they referring to? The spots only, or the behaviour, or both...? I'm also reluctant to continue using Nox-Ich and am leaning toward heat treatment only as the plants appear to be reacting to either the salt or the Nox-Ich :S
7. There are plans in the near future to transfer all animals and plants to a 25G tank. I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed right now but if anyone thinks I should put a rush on it, i.e. it would be more beneficial for the flora and fauna, please let me know!

Again, thanks in advance for the replies; I really appreciate your patience with my questions.

 

[Oceangirl]

I would just do the heat and the salt, or heat only. The more chemicals you add to a tank, the easier it is to throw the whole tank off balance. needless to say you now have an uncycled tank because most medicines will kill all beneficial bacteria. I would do a Large 50-75 PWC today and do only heat. Then maybe do another to make sure you got all the ick treatment. I would do heat only for a while, then perhaps add some salt after a bit. Keeping with water changes adding the salt in.

10 gallon=2 tablespoon salt. When you Change 50% water, add 5 gallon water back and 1 tablespoon salt back.

I only have had ich once and with the salt method and heat, I think I lost 2 neon tetras. They were WAY gone before I figured out they were that bad. (early fishkeeping days). I always dip/bath all my fish now in methylene Blue, before they go in the tank. Then Quarantine tank for a week, with 100% water changes. My QT is only 3 gallons, but has saved my bacon Soo many times.

Don't feel too bad about the neon tetras they are very sensitive. I had a black neon though live for 5 years.

 

[territerri]

Update:
Earlier today found a 2nd neon tetra, and tonight, a 3rd had perished from ich... not too surprising since the deceased were probably "Patient Zero," or the first ones to show the spots & erratic swimming. The remaining seven tetras are slightly duller than their usual colouring but still eating. Some of them still have tiny spots or ragged fins (that's probably where the spots were?)

On the brighter side of things, nearly all the spots are gone from the affected platys. The harlequin rasboras are lively as ever. I treated the tanks with the 3rd and final dosage of Nox-Ich (half dose again) and I don't think I'll repeat that 3-day cycle unless the heat/salt treatments do not work. If everything gets tinted blue it sort of irks me as to how safe Nox-Ich truly is...

The warmest I can get the water is 83.5F, even though I have a more powerful heater (100W) set to the max (89F) vs. tank size (10G). I really wish it would at least go up to the recommended 86F for ich treatment.

Tomorrow I will do a PWC of 50% just so the fish can benefit from the full 72hrs Nox-Ich dose. Fingers crossed!

I will keep a QT tank from now on!

 

[territerri]

Update:
Lost 4 neon tetras today, one of which jumped out of the tank and needed to be peeled off the floor

Kept water temp to max (83.5F). The heater still is not warming the water any more than that even though the max on the thermostat is 89F. Grrr... What brands of heaters are most reliable? This one is Marineland.

Did 50% PWC. Skipped the aquarium salt b/c the Amazon Sword plants are really trying to die.

Picked up a 5G QT tank from LFS. All set to QT the next set of fish as needed!

 

[eduguy]

When you have ich vacuum the bottom of the tank lots and change water lots.

 

[territerri]

No dead tetras today, yipee! The remaining two seem to be acting and looking relatively healthy. *fingers crossed* Keeping temperature up for at least 7 days total.