Still Dealing With White Cloudy Water !

[Johnny53]

Since my Ammonia spike--0:% for about 3 weeks--NitrIte 0%--Nitrate 80-160--Phosphate 5.0. I've been doing reg water changes 15-30% twice a week--Nitrate is high even immediately after the change. Tap water is 0%.
Water remains cloudy white. Added a Purigen pkg in power filter yesterday--no change today. Feeding has been kept to a very minimum.
I have a double sponge filter--350gph HOB & UG filter. I've never had this type trbl for this long before. I've recieved great advice previously--still this problem persists. Any advice and thoughts on this would really be appreciated!! Thanks!!

 

[TankGirl]

I would continue just like you have been and it should clear on its own. In the absence of nitrite or ammonia it is not indicative of a problem, per se, so if you are confident there is not something going in the tank that is contaminating it, I would wait and try to take no further action to give it a chance to clear.

The nitrate is high- are there any missing fish that could be decomposing somewhere and causing a problem? If not, you will need to increase water changes, even 10% daily, to slowly chip away at the nitrate. I would not do any massive water changes because the fish are acclimated to it and can be shocked by a drastic reduction in nitrate. Baby-step the nitrate down.

I wish there was a magic bullet I could give you, but try to put up with the cloudiness for a bit longer (assuming there is no obvious cause of it like new sand substrate or a decomposing fish).

 

[Johnny53]

Thanks for the reply!! The gravel has been cleaned well while doing the water changes with the Python attachment and nothing new has been added. No fish are missing to contribute to contamination. Unless like you mentioned a couple of weeks ago there is a lot of gunk under that UG filter--I surely hope not! That is the only source left though. I've been using Neutral Regulator 7.0--which is something I've never used before (white powder as you probably are aware) --could this be a factor?? ---

 

[TankGirl]

If you can discontinue using the pH regulator that will remove a major variable - unless you have a severe issue with pH that is killing your fish I would not fool with the pH at all. It is so easy to start a pH "bounce" when using these kinds of products and often times the tap water is perfectly fine for most fish. The potential pH fluctuations are really dangerous for fish.

Okay, I'll get off 'me soapbox now...

If the UG filter is new then there is probably not anything to be concerned about with it, but as time goes by gunk will indeed accumulate under there and it will have to be dealt with.

 

[Johnny53]

You can stay on that soapbox! Haha. It seems I need all the advice right now anyway! In the past I have had to do little for pH as you say. It's 7.2 now.
As for the UG filter--it's been in place for 4 and 1/2 years---never had to breakdown the tank. It is possible that it has caught up with me isn't it? That will mean a major procedure (dread that!). I've just never done a major cleaning of that type unless I had problems--which have been very few, even back in those younger years-ha. Thanks so much for the advice! I will just have see how it goes.

 

[TankGirl]

7.2 pH is just great - mine comes out of the tap at 7.4-7.6, and I don't touch it.

You could try getting a small syphon hose and removing your uplift tubes so the hose can be placed under the plates and see how much gunk you can get out that way. I find the regular size hose, as for a Python, is too large and airline tubing is too small, but something in between would work.

Good luck!

 

[Johnny53]

This experience makes me question whether I even want to keep a UG filter!!
Do you use one?

 

[chasgood]

Just a shot in the dark but could it be food related? What and how much do you feed the fish?
Do you add anything to help plants grow?

 

[Johnny53]

I've used the same food for a long time--TetraMin Flakes-very small pinch for the tetras--Hikari wafers for the Pleco 2 every other day--Wardley Shrimp pellets--just a few for cats. I've even cut this down during these problems--which occurred from my lack of attention cleaning and the Pleco being 12" long in a 29 gal tank. I've had him since just 2". After the conversations with Tankgirl it seems that the UG filter may be a mess underneath---any ideas that you have are greatly appreciated--thanks for the post!! Oh, I don't use any additives other than Start Right & Neutral Reg 7.0--the later which I am going to discontinue and just use Amquel I suppose. Any ideas are greatly appreciated and thanks for the post!!

 

[Johnny53]

I would love to hear some opinions on reverse flow powerheads attached to the UG filters. Looks like that would prevent this buildup from occuring again in the future?? Thanks.

 

[TankGirl]

I used to use UGF's when they were SOP for fish tanks, but not anymore - it has probably been 12 years since I used one. If it has been undisturbed for as long as you say, there might be some serious mess in there.

I would try to syphon out under it if you can, and then get yourself a couple of powerheads and try the reverse flow - I think that is much better than the airstone flow.

 

[poppab02]

My advice, get rid of the UGF. They're nasty and cause problems if not continually cleaned.

 

[Johnny53]

Thanks for your time and the reply!! That's what I'll do and hopefully won't have all this trouble again! Maybe down the line I can contribute to the forum instead of needing advice all the time. Hopefull all this is helping someone else too.

 

[Johnny53]

That is probably what is going to happen in the end. I'll try to siphon some of it out for now so as to not have such a mess later. You just can't get to the problem to clean it up. With everyones replies today I think I'll get this under control--thanks to all of you. 8)

 

[chasgood]

UGF filters were great for there time. With todays power/canister filters and use of foam media or bio-wheels they just are not needed now.
A disadvantage of the RUGF is that the intake of the powerhead needs to be filtered, (a sponge filter), so the sponge must be cleaned periodically.
Buying a RUGF powerhead and foam filter will cost about the same as buying a powerfilter.
As to cleaning the mess in the gravel. Your going to go thru a lot of water sucking up the crud. A trick I used years ago was to make a filter for the siphoned water. The took a large thick plastic cup, drilled several small holes in the bottom. placed some floss in the cup with a rock or 2 to hold it down. Made a hanger for the cup to hang on the lip of my 5gal bucket and hold the hose too. A wire coat hanger will do. When the bucket gets full just pour it back in and keep on vaccuming. Rinse the floss as needed.

Good luck

 

[Johnny53]

Thanks for the info! Neat trick on filtering the siphoned water too. I am in the process of eliminating the UGF altogether--a real mess! When I stuck that siphon hose down the lift tube pipe--what came out of there doesn't need to be!! I already have a 350gph power filter and a (double sponge filter-mainly for bacteria). I've got a powerhead ordered along with a quick filter for the bottom of it for now and plan to use it for aeriation since I won't have the lift tubes. Thanks for all the advice--hope this solution sounds ok to all. 8)

 

[urville]

i think thats sounds fine, what kind of gravel do you have?? i do reccomend a power filter or a canister or something.

on another note but VERY related, on a trip to lfs this last week i learned that over 50 people have been in the last month and complained about high nitrAtes. everyon was testing the tank and the tap water. now this is the strange part because the tap is testing at 0 even after being left out 24 hours, and yet people cant get their nitrates down the lfs was stumped. i sent an eail to the water people but havent herd anything. there have been a few times when the city advised people publicly to buy bottled drinking water due to bacteria overload or something. strange business, but it got me thinking how often does this happen? how serious does it have to be fr them to do something. this makes me consider RO water, but i dont really like the idea as i hate chems ( can you really trust whats in there), and you have to reconsititute the water with dosing so... you may be having the same problem, contact your local water treatment facility or department is my advice.
although i do also advocate trashing the ugf... blech
i think you'll find the number of people with ugf success, especially long term, isnt a good factor.

 

[Johnny53]

I really think my whole problem stemmed from UGF gunk overload. My tap water also tested 0 NitrAtes--. Where I live we are lucky to keep the water going--sometimes the chlorine runs low and I have to call them because the water starts smelling like a sewer--nice huh. People would be surprised if they knew how things are really handled at the utilities! Lots of the equip is way too old and just doesn't work right anymore. Thanks for the info--it is interesting to know that there are others having this problem too.

 

[urville]

OMG no kidding! thats why i'm considering ro for at least MY water...

 

[chasgood]

I never know what my tap water will test at when it comes to ph and gh. A growing City using Wells. When usage is high and the wells cant keep up they buy water from the big City next door that comes from a lake. The ph can range from 7.2 up to 8.6. Crazy. Doing small 10% pwc keeps the fish from being shocked by a big ph change.