Stubborn Fin Melt

[Kirrie]

I know this is going to be a lot to read, but I wanted to make sure I covered everything so someone can help me. Please ask questions if I missed anything!

I spend most of my time on another forum, but I am really desperate for new ideas right now. 3 of my 4 bettas have fin melt. Fin melt is different from fin rot because it is harder to treat, progresses differently, and looks a little different.

My oldest betta, Reagan (a halfmoon plakat) has been with me for almost exactly a year now and has had fin melt for probably 3/4 of that time. It started out very slow, then one week his fins just started disappearing, then it seemed to stop almost completely before it progressed very slowly for a while. Now he has barely any fins, but hasn't lost anything in a few months. He started out in a 5.5 gallon heated, filtered, and cycled tank, but I moved him to a 10 gallon hoping that a brand new tank and extra caution would get rid of the bacteria eating his fins. I am really desperate for solutions at this point because I think I may lose Reagan soon if I don't come up with something quick. His lack of fins makes it really hard for him to swim, so he lays around quite a bit. I will mention what treatments I have used after introducing my other bettas, because I have used the same treatments on all of them.



My second betta, Calvin (an elephant ear) has been with me for exactly 4 months. When I got him, he had a chunk missing from one of his ears, but I figured it would grow back in. Sadly, it did not. He started showing signs of fin melt maybe a month or so ago, but luckily, it has been progressing slowly and he doesn't look too bad.



My third betta, Quincy (a crowntail) has been with me for exactly 3 months. He shares a 10 gallon heated, filtered, and cycled tank with Calvin. Of course it is divided and neither one pays the other any attention so they aren't stressed out. Quincy had no damage when I got him, but it looked like he had new fin growth on his pectorals when I got him. Within the past month, his fins have just been destroyed. The fin melt started out slowly, around the same time as Calvin's, but Quincy's fins have been disappearing so quickly in the past week or so. I am afraid he is going to end up like Reagan.



My last betta is Thomas (another crowntail), that I've had for about 2 months. He lives peacefully in a 20 gallon with some rasboras. So far, his fins have been fine, but I am watching his tail fin because I noticed one of his spikes is missing but it doesn't really look like fin rot. I'm thinking he got caught on the filter or something. At least, that's what I'm hoping. I would be devastated if he ended up with fin melt too. Thomas is the betta in my profile picture. He won POTM last month

For the treatments, I started with just more water changes. Instead of just one weekly water change, I was changing the water every other day. Then I moved on to aquarium salt. I had some ParaGuard on hand, so I tried a bath, which didn't seem to do anything. I believe the next thing I tried was Kanaplex. When that didn't work, I tried methylene blue swabs. I would net each fish and directly apply the methylene blue to their fins (away from their gills and eyes) and then place them back in the tank. After a few days of that treatment, I decided it was too stressful on them and me, so I gave them 10 second methylene blue dips instead. These were done daily for a week. Of course that didn't work, so the next thing I tried was Triple Sulfa.

I make sure to keep Indian Almond Leaves in their tanks at all times and replace them when they start to rot. I feed them a good quality pellet (New Life Spectrum Betta Formula), and give them a few thawed out bloodworms or brine shrimp each week. I also got rid of their sponge filters and replaced them with hang on the back filters, hoping to get rid of any bad bacteria that may be living in the sponge. I have also flushed their tanks a few times. I know it probably seems like a lot, but I made sure to do the full treatment of each and gave the bettas a break in between treatments to avoid overwhelming them.

Since nothing has worked, I have just been changing their water 2-3 times a week while making sure to keep the bottoms of their tanks clean. They have a sand substrate so all the debris rests on top. I am currently waiting on the Furan 2 to arrive in the mail so I can try a combination of Furan 2 and Kanaplex as was suggested to me on another forum. Apart from that, I don't know what else to do for them and everyone else is running out of ideas too

 

[Kirrie]

Here is what Reagan, Calvin, and Quincy looked like before they got fin melt.

Also, I should have mentioned that people have asked if it could be my water but I don't think it could be my water that is causing the fin melt. Reagan lives at my dads in a completely different town from Calvin and Quincy at my moms, so they do not have the same exact water in their tanks, although they are both on well water.

I also forgot that I use Prime in my tanks, but was using a combination of Prime and API Stress Coat + for the aloe vera which is supposedly good for their fins. Now I just use Prime.

 

[Brookster123]

Geez, that's a tough one, seems your wc routine is on point, you've taken extra steps as well?? I'm not sure i can help. What's the flow like in the tank?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Kirrie]

The hang on the back filters I got were a little too strong, so I baffled them with a water bottle so they wouldn't push my bettas around. Calvin and Quincy's 10 gallon has the filter and an air stone in it because when I took the sponge filter out of Calvin's side and put the hang on the back filter on Quincy's side, Calvin didn't seem to be happy. I think he likes having water movement as long as it's not too strong.

 

[dragon14]

We use these on the intake on our filters, not sure if they'd fit yours. Great place for bb to grow too We also put them where our water pours out of our filter.

http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/cache..._Fluval-Edge-Pre-Filter-Sponge_1w400-h400.png

http://petus.imageg.net/PETNA_36/pimg/pPETNA-5147341_main_t300x300.jpg

We have bought them in the first packaging, but apparently there is a new packaging as well?

Could they be nipping themselves? Or being nipped?

 

[dragon14]

I'm really sorry about Reagan Seeing what has happened to him is heartbreaking

Who looks after him when you are not there?

This sure is a perplexing problem... I wish I could be of some help but I don't think I can be. I sure do hope you are able to figure this out.

 

[Kirrie]

I am home every few days, so I never miss a water change, but when I'm not there, my dad feeds Reagan and my other fish. When I'm not at my mom's she feeds Calvin, Quincy, Thomas and my other fish.

I have described to both of them what to look for when they check on my fish so they know when to call me if something is wrong so I can tell them what to do.

It is breaking my heart to watch Reagan go downhill like this. He's been a fighter so far though, so he is very special to me. It kills me to see that Calvin and especially Quincy might be starting down that path too.

Since the tanks are at 2 different houses, nothing from either tank should have come in contact with the other tank, at least nothing that I can think of. So I'm not sure how both tanks ended up with something that's supposed to be pretty uncommon.

 

[Delapool]

Furan 2 and Kanaplax together worth a try and should be better together without any issues. How long will the treatment last?

Also other things that pop to mind are:

Would you have water readings for ph, temp, ammonia, nitrates? I doubt there is an issue but just to close off.

The blood worms / brine shrimp - I assume they are disease free / frozen?

Are you treating with any bacteria in a bottle supplements? Nitrifying or heterotrophic.

Is treated tap water used for pwc's? By treated I just mean from a town water supply.

 

[Kirrie]

I believe the Kanaplex is just supposed to last a week. I'm not sure about the Furan 2 yet because it hasn't arrived in the mail, even though it was supposed to be here last week.

Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all good (I use the API liquid test kit), and the pH has been stable the entire time. If I remember correctly, the pH in Reagan's tank is 7.6, the pH in Calvin and Quincy's tank is 6.8.

The bloodworms and brine shrimp are frozen.

The only thing I put in my tanks is Prime and Seachems Flourish and root tabs for the plants (although I forget to replace those sometimes).

I don't know too much about the water at either my mom's or dad's house, but they both live outside of town in the country, so we're not on city water. I believe it's well water.

Some have suggested that I stop using well water and start using RO water, but in my current position, I don't know if I could do that, or if it would even help. If it was the water, wouldn't it be affecting my other fish too? I have different tetras, corys, a bn pleco, rasboras, and a dwarf gourami. None of which have fin problems of any kind.

 

[Delapool]

I believe the Kanaplex is just supposed to last a week. I'm not sure about the Furan 2 yet because it hasn't arrived in the mail, even though it was supposed to be here last week.

Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all good (I use the API liquid test kit), and the pH has been stable the entire time. If I remember correctly, the pH in Reagan's tank is 7.6, the pH in Calvin and Quincy's tank is 6.8.

The bloodworms and brine shrimp are frozen.

The only thing I put in my tanks is Prime and Seachems Flourish and root tabs for the plants (although I forget to replace those sometimes).

I don't know too much about the water at either my mom's or dad's house, but they both live outside of town in the country, so we're not on city water. I believe it's well water.

Some have suggested that I stop using well water and start using RO water, but in my current position, I don't know if I could do that, or if it would even help. If it was the water, wouldn't it be affecting my other fish too? I have different tetras, corys, a bn pleco, rasboras, and a dwarf gourami. None of which have fin problems of any kind.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, missed the notes on well water first time (slooow internet connection).

I've had infected fish next to fine fish so it would be possible but depends on the well water. I'd be surprised as well if it was the problem. Things to check would be if anything has changed there (eg low well levels or livestock contamination). I'm guessing this has all been checked but just in case.

Temp - I'd reduce that down to around 76 if it is higher. That will slow down the infection.

Could they have been infected from shop?

 

[Kirrie]

There temps are usually around 80, so I will lower them for now.

Reagan did not appear to be infected when I got him, but he did start showing signs of it pretty soon after I got him. It started just on his bottom fins and the bottom of his tail fin. I assumed it was because he would sleep on the gravel at night so I kept it really clean, capped it with sand, and eventually just replaced it with sand but of course that didn't do anything and it spread to the rest of his fins.

Calvin looked fine when I got him too, except for the chunk missing from one of his pectorals, which is still there. So I guess he could have had it already, but his fins didn't start to look worse until a month ago.

Quincy's fins were perfect when I got him, he must not have been in the cup long. He even had new fin growth on his pectorals, so I don't think he had it before either.

I think, if it was my water, Thomas would be showing signs of it too. I did noticed a spike missing from his tail fin, but it doesn't look the same as the fin melt and it disappeared all at once rather than just melting away slowly like most of Quincy's spikes?

Is there a name for the parts of a crowntails fins? I just call them spikes

 

[Delapool]

Lol - not sure.

I've been trying to research frozen food and it seems in Australia they are irradiated. I'll throw it out there for discussion though (since I'm boarding flight soon). I would try stopping frozen food feeding during during treatment and see if it helps. Maybe even just a small amount of mess from feeding is encouraging bacteria.

 

[Kirrie]

They were getting bloodworms or brine shrimp 2-3 times a week before, just 2 or 3 of them, but I stopped feeding them that much for exactly that reason. I figured once a week wouldn't create such a mess. So I should stop using them completely for a while?

 

[Kirrie]

Another thought just occurred to me. If it was my water, it would have affected my previous bettas. Just a month before Reagan, I had a veiltail named Apollo. I had him for 8 months with no fin rot or fin melt. Before Apollo I had another veiltail named Zeus who also had healthy fins, despite me not really knowing anything about fish and how to care for them properly at that point.

 

[Delapool]

Makes sense that not water issues. Yeah, I would stop feeding that for a bit. It seems a stretch but there must be some common link. Hopefully a week of meds will get them recovering.

Why were others suggesting the water?

Edit - I agree, the mess should be pretty low but maybe there is just enough debris from it for bacteria. It's just a thought though.

 

[Kirrie]

A few others said that they too had well water, and noticed that their bettas fins were looking a little ragged. When they started using RO water, their fins were fine.

I'm thinking that could be from a number of things though, not just because they were using well water to begin with.

 

[dragon14]

I am experiencing something somewhat similar with my betta. It is probably from ammonia and or nitrates... I don't know if you've peeked at the thread I made, but, it is quite long now but. May give you some ideas. Our situations may be different though, so proceed with caution

Have they gotten any better? I am really hoping your fish will get better. I hate to see fish losing fins and we as humans sometimes feel powerless to stop it but usually there is a good way to help

 

[Delapool]

Yes it seems tricky and Prime should deal with any heavy metals or nitrates or ammonia anyways. Has the well water ever been tested? You ph seems fine. If it was really high I would of guessed maybe a high gh/kh but even that shouldn't be an issue once the fish are settled in.

We had our bore tested a couple of times in dry and wet season for any bacteria/elements. It used to get slightly salty at end of dry season when not much water but no problems with bacteria as it was fenced off and the bore started in clay not sand.

 

[Kirrie]

I tried to have it tested a while back, before all of this started, because I was curious, but the person I was in contact with just stopped responding to me emails so I never knew where she wanted me to take the water to have it tested.

dragon14, I will check out your thread

Calvin and Quincy just started the KanaPlex/Furan 2 treatment today, Reagan should be starting this Sunday or Monday when I go to my dad's. I'm really hoping for some progress this time.

 

[Delapool]

Good luck - keep us posted.