To do a water change or not

[Katiebug4lake]

Thank you Pearly.

I am still continuing to do 50 percent or greater water changes daily, my levels are unchanged. After my w/c I add 2 capfuls of prime and aquarium salt. I'm hoping eventually my tank will cycle. It's been a long 6 weeks. My fish seem to be healthy and I haven't lost any more. My female platy I believe had fry as she is skinny again. No signs of fry in the tank as she had been hiding under a rock for the last week not coming out to visit much. I would have liked to have kept them from being fish food if she had them but maybe next time, with all else going on. Ill be better prepared next time.
Anyway, I too used google to research and thank goodness for this sight. It has helped me tremendously.

Once I get through this and have a cycled tank I will be researching adding more fish.

Thank you for the encouragement. I love my aquarium and watching my happy fish.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

To get to where you are trying to go (beautiful and balalced tank) PATIENCE is your friend! When in doubt do a W/C. On the other hand, let your water age for 24-48 hours before adding to your tank. Water systems across the country are using chlorine, chloramines and even amonia to treat drinking water...all of which are toxic to your fish. The more chemicals you add the more you stress your fish. I use R/O water in my tanks and NOTHING else. No prime, AmQuel, Start Right, stress zyme....nothing, and my Discus and Angels are doing fine. A basic to advanced understanding of water and water chemistry is the right place to start. Look up Joe Gargas as aquaresearchcenter.com and get his book on water quality. You will see a complete turn around in your tank environment. There is a lot more to water quality than PH, Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. There is also carbonate hardness, total dissolved solids, conductivity and hypoxia. Not to scare you...take a deep breath...read, read and then read some more and you will be just fine. 90% of problems with fish start and stop with water quality. Once you have an understanding of water...the rest will be easy. Also if you are using activated charcoal in your filters, remember that it is only good for about 3-4 weeks. After that time it can leach toxins back into your tank, thus causing even more problems. Let your water age like I said, maybe filter through charcoal BEFORE adding to your tank. Finally keep up the water changes...don't get discouraged,,,cycling is normal, we have all been through it and the answer has always been patience and time. Good Luck!

 

[absolutangel04]

Thank you Pearly.

I am still continuing to do 50 percent or greater water changes daily, my levels are unchanged. After my w/c I add 2 capfuls of prime and aquarium salt. I'm hoping eventually my tank will cycle. It's been a long 6 weeks. My fish seem to be healthy and I haven't lost any more. My female platy I believe had fry as she is skinny again. No signs of fry in the tank as she had been hiding under a rock for the last week not coming out to visit much. I would have liked to have kept them from being fish food if she had them but maybe next time, with all else going on. Ill be better prepared next time.
Anyway, I too used google to research and thank goodness for this sight. It has helped me tremendously.

Once I get through this and have a cycled tank I will be researching adding more fish.

Thank you for the encouragement. I love my aquarium and watching my happy fish.

You don't need to do daily pwc if you are using Prime to keep the levels from hurting the fish. You are making more work for yourself than you need to be honest. Especially with the salt in there also to nullify the nitrates. The point of the pwc is to not hurt the fish. You have the levels controlled so they won't hurt the fish. Thus, no need to go overboard with the pwc. You can let it go for 2 days and be fine since you are continually testing and taking steps to make sure the 'trites are not hurting the fish.

I disagree about just letting the water age and then adding it. I do agree that there are many excess chems out there that do not need to be added. Water chemistry is indeed also quite complicated and there is far more to it than just the nitrogen cycle and pH. That said, water varies in the wild too and fish are highly adaptable to many levels like hardness and tds. While chlorine will just gas off in a day or so, chloramines will not. It all depends on what is used to treat the water. Also, conditioners like Prime treat the water for heavy metal traces which are not good for fish in the long run. Some tap water is very suitable for fish, some is not. There are a lot of variable there and I do not suggest skipping water conditioner. Some chems do stress fish. Experience and research tell me that Prime is not one of those chems. With Prime (and most similar products), they work pretty much instantly and there is no reason to let the water age.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

You make good points and I agree with you. My story has been a little different than most since I am raising Discus which tend to be more demanding. My standing water is circulated, aerated, heated and filtered through peat and indian almond leaves before adding to my tank. The newbie can get quite discouraged when they meet with cycling and all the basics that get out of control sometimes. I was trying to instill patience and discipline...not fear and intimidation. I am always reading and learning, and was trying to get the newbie off to a similar routine with the hope that lessons learned would bebefit someone else further down the road. I know I have really been helped emensely by this forum. D

 

[Katiebug4lake]

So far so good. I watched my levels and now only having to do pwc every two to three days. I'm almost there .5 ppm on nitrites and 15 ppm on nitrates and .025 ammonia... All is good. Relaxing a bit...thank you all for the great advice. After I'm cycled. I so can wait to add a few more fish. Any suggestions???
I have 3 black widow tetras, 2 green glow tetras, 3 platys and 2 Cory's, 1 pleco. All happy and healthy.i know I want two more Cory's. but other than that I'm not sure.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

I would wait for at least another 30 days befire adding anything else. Cycling has been known to stall at a certain point. Also keep a close eye on amonia. Overfrrding and fish waste can reak havoc on a normay cycle that can take from 6 weeks to 6 months. Live plants help in this area as they consume nitrates and supply oxygen. A PH under 7 is less toxic when it comes to amonia as opposed to a tank with a PH of 7.6. As I keep Discus my PH id 6.0-6.5 where amonia is not a real threat. From what I hear, your fish perfer a PH from 7.0 down to 6.5. If you lower the PH over time..amonia is less of a problem. A natiral way to do it is drift wood and indian almond leaves. A product called EPI 6.5 is a good off the shelf product that seems to work pretty well. Also the regular AmQuel (NOT THE AMQUEL+) is also another good choice. Keep up with your water changes and let your water age from 24-48 hours before adding to your tank in a good practice. Chlorine and amonia tend to vent out over this period, but chloramines are a different story. Since I use R/O water I have never had a problem and I have not spent any $$$ on water treatments in years. I pre-filter through charcoal and age for 1-2 days. It works for me, though some may have other methods. Time will tell which methid works best for you. Good Luck!!! Dwayne

 

[absolutangel04]

So far so good. I watched my levels and now only having to do pwc every two to three days. I'm almost there .5 ppm on nitrites and 15 ppm on nitrates and .025 ammonia... All is good. Relaxing a bit...thank you all for the great advice. After I'm cycled. I so can wait to add a few more fish. Any suggestions???
I have 3 black widow tetras, 2 green glow tetras, 3 platys and 2 Cory's, 1 pleco. All happy and healthy.i know I want two more Cory's. but other than that I'm not sure.

I would wait a bit after your cycled just to make sure everything is stable, but it doesn't sound like you are in a hurry. So, that is good.
There are honestly tons and tons of options for stocking your tank. I would fill out your schools to start with, and then add a centerpiece fish like a gourami.
Also, just a heads up, depending on what type of pleco you have, it may vastly outgrow your tank. Generally, the plecos sold in stores just as "plecos" are common plecos and they can get way over a foot long and are honestly not well suited to small tanks at all. So, if that is what you have, he will be fine for now, but you should re-home in the future so he can get into a bigger tank with more grow space.

 

[Kelly5978]

I am sorry to barge in on your thread, but I'm having a terrible time getting through the nitrite phase on one of my tanks. I am using prime, but after reading this, I think I was changing wAter too much! I hope things work out for you, and hope you don't mind me tagging along for the great info you're getting!

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Nitrites are bad......keep up the WC! The only way to reduce nitrites is through water changes. You may have too high of TDS with all the chemicals you are using....but keep up the WC.

 

[Kelly5978]

What's a tds? The only thing I use on my 10 gallon is prime. (Or were u talking to someone else? Either way, I'm trying to learn....

 

[dwayne.aycock]

TDS are total dissolved solids . Think of it this way.....you are driving in a convertible with the top down during a nice spring day....this would be low TDS. Now imagine the same drive during a sand storm....that would be high tds. The more additives you use the higher the TDS. The less additives you use the lower the TDS. Your fish prefer low TDS. There is another factor directly related to TDS called conductivity which affects the osmoregulation of your fish. A bit advanced I know....but reading up on the two will help you a lot. As always....good luck! D

 

[Kelly5978]

So anything I add to the water raises the tds....bad for fish. Got it. So, if I use prime as a water conditioner, don't use stress coat just cause they're stressed. So, I guess I should NOT use the maracyn2 until the parasite guard is gone in 48 hours? I second guess myself too much. A gourami in my 10 gallon had hemorragsepticia a while back. I always boil my tools, and each tank has its own net. But realized that I use the same gravel vac. Now I'm worried its that, and they need the maracyn2, or fungus clear of something. I'm truly not crazy....I just really want them well. I am going to do nothing except my daily water tests for 2 days. Is there anything I should watch for. That would be a warning sign that the fish needed fungus or bacterial meds instead or parasite?

 

[dwayne.aycock]

It seems like you have a lot of things going on at the same time. I can't say if they are related or not, but adding more and more chemicals doesn't help. Additionally, if you are running charcoal in your filters, how long has it been there? carbon is only good for about 3-4 weeks. After then, it can be the cause of other problems while it leaches toxins back into your tank. Charcoal removes additives from your tank and binds them up in its molecular structure. If you are running meds for fish disease, but running charcoal at the same time, the charcoal is removing the meds, thus making the meds and or treatment null and void. Thr best recommendation is to remove carbon while dosing meds. If you are seeing parasites or cysts, they can often be reduced or killed by raising the tank temp above 82 degrees. I often keep my Discus ar 84-86 degrees. Some advocate the use of salt to battle certain infections. I am not a fan of this practice when it comes to treating the whole tank, but rather removing the fish and dipping in a light salt bath for about 30 minutes 2-3 times per week as opposed to treating the whole tank. Salt does not evaporate. The only way to remove salt is through dilution AKA water changes. Boiling tools is not necessary, a wash in a hydrogen peroxide solution is appropriate. I am not sure of the concentration, but I am sure there are other threads on this site that spell out the recipe. Just remember with smaller tanks, more can go wrong faster as opposed to a larger tank. A 20% water chabge on a 10 gallon tank is 2 gallons....not much when you think about it. 5 Gallons in and out during the week is a 50% water change, which I recommend when you are having water problems. The big three with a tank having problems are 1) water changes 2) feeding or rather not over feeding 3) filter maintenance...removing old carbon. If you are using meds, remember that there is an increase in O2 demand, so an airstone should be used. Follow these simple steps and you should be fine....Good Luck!!
D

 

[Pearly]

It seems like you have a lot of things going on at the same time. I can't say if they are related or not, but adding more and more chemicals doesn't help. Additionally, if you are running charcoal in your filters, how long has it been there? carbon is only good for about 3-4 weeks. After then, it can be the cause of other problems while it leaches toxins back into your tank. Charcoal removes additives from your tank and binds them up in its molecular structure. If you are running meds for fish disease, but running charcoal at the same time, the charcoal is removing the meds, thus making the meds and or treatment null and void. Thr best recommendation is to remove carbon while dosing meds. If you are seeing parasites or cysts, they can often be reduced or killed by raising the tank temp above 82 degrees. I often keep my Discus ar 84-86 degrees. Some advocate the use of salt to battle certain infections. I am not a fan of this practice when it comes to treating the whole tank, but rather removing the fish and dipping in a light salt bath for about 30 minutes 2-3 times per week as opposed to treating the whole tank. Salt does not evaporate. The only way to remove salt is through dilution AKA water changes. Boiling tools is not necessary, a wash in a hydrogen peroxide solution is appropriate. I am not sure of the concentration, but I am sure there are other threads on this site that spell out the recipe. Just remember with smaller tanks, more can go wrong faster as opposed to a larger tank. A 20% water chabge on a 10 gallon tank is 2 gallons....not much when you think about it. 5 Gallons in and out during the week is a 50% water change, which I recommend when you are having water problems. The big three with a tank having problems are 1) water changes 2) feeding or rather not over feeding 3) filter maintenance...removing old carbon. If you are using meds, remember that there is an increase in O2 demand, so an airstone should be used. Follow these simple steps and you should be fine....Good Luck!!
D

Great info! I've been following this thread as I'm dealing with low capacity tanks too. Learning a lot from you Guys out there! Thanks!

 

[Kelly5978]

Thanks so much! I did remove the carbon filter, which was coming up on 3 weeks. I think I'll change em every 2 from now on! I was listening to the wrong people for a long time! Told me not to change the filter until it was falling apart!!!! I knew that didn't jive with the instructions, so luckily, I never took the advice. As for the water, I test sometimes twice a day when I feel the fish are acting funny. I have a second tank that has problems, so I know the test kit works. It always says 0 for everything except nitrates, which are always low. Honestly, the tank had zero problems until I did my first water change. (Didn't do any for the first 13 days because I never got any Ammon or nitrite readings when using stability and prime to cycle. I changed 20% of water on day 13 cause the stability bottle said to, used prime to condition, added 1/2 the recommended aquarium salt to protect (which I now know was stupid).....and everything went to poop. Seems like the more I try to help, the worse it gets! Thanks for the info. I swear if my angels pull through this, I'm leaving them alone! I just over worry! For example, this morning, sparkle seems better....a little. It looks dark under one of his gills (hoping something fell off it????) looks like a bruise under the skin almost. But he has a faint pink color on his bottom fin. So, instead of thinking "hey he's getting a new color", I start googling everything, start thinking its a "red streak", remember that my OTHER tank had hemorraghic septicemia, and start worrying I transferred it to this tank". I think I need meds for ME! Lol. So, I'm taking a pic when I get home. I keep trying to link pics to my threads, but can't figure it out! If I manage to, feel free to tell me my fish is beautiful and fine.

 

[dwayne.aycock]

Angels can be tricky and require some specific water conditions.
Angels are from the Amazon basin and usually thrive in water that is soft with a PH of 6.5 to 6.8. I know other may balk at this based on the waters the breeder used, but when in doubt, water that is slightly acidic is good for both the fish, makes amonia less of a threat (more toxic above PH 7.0) and require a temp around 82 degrees where parasites like Ich can't thrive. You can soften tap water with Indian Almond Leaves or partial mix of 50% R/O water and 50% filtered tap. Angels are a niche fish and can at times be a double edged sword. Angels can make certain fish sick (the bacteria in their digestive tract can cause problems with other fish) and the opposite is also true. I have 2 regional / species tanks. Tank 1 (75 gallons upper Amazon basin) has Angels, green coreys, black fin tetras and red rasporas. These fish are found in similar waters of the Amazon basin. In my other tank ( Discus with Cardinal Tetras, Black flag tetras, and green coreys) I have fish from the lower Amazon basin. I use similar plants mostly Amazon and Green Ozelot Swords, Anubias, Crypts and Java fern. These plants provide excellent hiding places for the fish as well as tolerating the higher temps. Be careful when adding fish from dofferent regions.....disease transmission can be of concern. One of the scariest is Gill Flukes which can be on both fish as well as plants. Wash plants in a diluted water and hydrogen peroxide solution for about 10 minutes. When introducing new fish, a quarentine tanks is best unless you REALLY trust your LFS. I would avoid the big chain pet stores if you know what I mean...they are for profit only and though the fish may look good....they tend to be full of chemicals, antibiotics etc that are masked until you get them home and add to your tank......BOOM they have you now because the real profit for the big chain stores is in water treatments, meds and decorations. Go slow...spend some time observing your fish's normal behavior.....use caution when using salt. Use a daily journal to track what you are soing (W/C amounts and dates, meds, filter maintenance, PH, Nitrate, Nitrite, amonia, bacteria blooms, water smells bad, etc). I have a photo journal on how I set up my Discus and angel tanks on this site. Feel free to take a look. Maybe it can help you. Good Luck! D

 

[Kelly5978]

Where do I find your video? That's exactly the kind of thing I want to see! Thanks. I knew ph affected angels. And, mine is high. I keep worrying about it, but everyone says a high ph is better than a fluctuating one. It was 8.2 when I started tank. I use 1/2 tap and 1/2 bottled R/O water (NOT DISTILLED, basically I read the ingredients, and look for R/O AND and little if anything else as possible). I can't really afford my own RO water system right now. It's down below 8 now. I'm going to try the almond leaves. I don't want to use the fixes or eAsybalance, cause I might mess it up. Also, I read that I need to make sure I have enough electrolighys in my water. How? And how to replace them if I don't have enough? There are ONLY angels in this tank.

 

[Kelly5978]

Also, I have a detailed journal of the cycling and daily activities if my angel tank. Unfortunately, it's pretty bare, since I never got any readings. But I do write everything that's going on now. I wish I knew what happened. All that I did different was a water change (which is supposed to be good). Then, 1 dies and 1 is acting weird. Have you ever seen an angel shiver (like cold) and have jerky movements? Staying at the top most the time? I don't want chemicals in my tank, but I know something is wrong! Could it really just be the ph? Or the one time re tank got really hot, and I didn't notice for a few hours? I can't wait til it settles and I can love and watch my beautiful babies!

 

[dwayne.aycock]

What you are seeing id shimmy. It is a sign that something is wrong. In your case i believe the shimmy to be caused by hugh PH as wass as an amonia problem. I have seen Angels in water with a PH of 8.5. This is extremely high in my opinion. You can gradually lower your PH with EPI PH down liquid, or try drift wood and live plants. If you have a holding resevoir for your new tank water (like in a 55 gallon drum) it is easier to set the PH there. I have also heard of using white vinegar, but you have to be very careful. Peat and Indial Almond Leaves is the most natural and gradual way. Water with a PH of 8.2 is unusual and is more than likely hard water which os uncomfortable for angels. An R/Osystem may be the answer for you, and tou can find 5 stage systems for under $100 on ebay. In the short run, I suggest peat and a water softener as well as a PH reducer.Go to emeber photos and look up dwayne.aycock, you should fing lots of PICs as well as my home made R/O system. I ususlly get my filters and such from swimming pool supply stores as well as Lower abd Home Depot. I built my system gradually to where it is now. D

 

[Kelly5978]

I think you may be right. I've had a feeling it was ph the whole time. I can't go back on this phone. Can you please give me the peat recipe again? I've called everywhere....and I can't find driftwood or Indian almond leaf anywhere. I'm ordering some, but I'm afraid it won't get here in time. I am doing everything I can NOT TO add ph buffers. Everyone says they create fluctuations which will definitely kill. I will do whatever I have to, but I want to try natural first. I just tested. 0 ammonia. Someone else said its probably ammonia, but my test says no. Could it be wrong? I was told I may get a reading of ammonia that was not harmful, because I'm using prime, but could I get no reading, and there actually be ammonia? I know the kit works, cause I tested my bettas water, and it for sure had ammonia!