Unknown disease?

[em_witt]

I have a 75 gallon that had
10 med. size angels in it along with
12 cories
8 cheery barbs and
6 black skirt
4 ABN plecos

And in the last 1-2 weeks I am seeing my fish die before me. I now have.
5 angels
8cories
6barbs
6tetras
1 ABN

Whenever I see a sick fish they lose all sense of direction and they look like they don't know up from down. I have tried to move them to a quarantine tank and treat with Pimafix and melafix. But they end up dead within 2 hours of when the symptoms occur. They do NOT have a loss in appetite at all. Poop does NOT look white and stringy. Prams are good. 0-0-20
What is this????

 

[jlk]

Hmm...this is a strange case here and its affecting everyone equally and quickly. So, let's start with what we can rule out.

Water change schedule? Ph (and kh/gh if you have these)? How long the tank has been running with fish? The last time you added new fish? Were they properly quarantined for a couple of weeks before adding them? Diet? Have the deaths been gradual (one fish one day, another in a few days) or did they all die within a very short time frame (such as few hours after a wc or over the course of a single day)? Any other symptoms other than disorientation?

Have you changed anything recently with the tank such as new filter media, décor, a different water conditioner, resealed the tank or added any other type of chemical (even salt)? Any chance of something polluting the tank such as using carpet powder, fumigants, aerosols or flea chemicals anywhere in the house? Any chance of a stray electric current in the tank?

Just running through possibilities that come to mind so we can work on trying to narrow what may be the cause here.

 

[em_witt]

Hmm...this is a strange case here and its affecting everyone equally and quickly. So, let's start with what we can rule out.

Water change schedule? Ph (and kh/gh if you have these)? How long the tank has been running with fish? The last time you added new fish? Were they properly quarantined for a couple of weeks before adding them? Diet? Have the deaths been gradual (one fish one day, another in a few days) or did they all die within a very short time frame (such as few hours after a wc or over the course of a single day)? Any other symptoms other than disorientation?

Have you changed anything recently with the tank such as new filter media, décor, a different water conditioner, resealed the tank or added any other type of chemical (even salt)? Any chance of something polluting the tank such as using carpet powder, fumigants, aerosols or flea chemicals anywhere in the house? Any chance of a stray electric current in the tank?

Just running through possibilities that come to mind so we can work on trying to narrow what may be the cause here.

Wc schudule. 1 per week anywhere between 20%-50%

Ph-7.6
Kh-don't kno exact # but it's higher

Been running w/ fish for on the higher end of 3 years

Added new fish 1-2 weeks ago.( the plecos) they died after they went in.

They were in QT for 2 weeks before. Would have kept in longer but they were fighting bad.

Diet- omega 1 slow sinking cichlid pellets. And omega 1 flake. And 2 times per week they get a variety of frozen blood worms, brine, or beef hart.

The deaths have been one every few days. Very strange.

Other symptoms. Small bloat. Nothing I would overly concern myself with but could still be a problem. Just started feeding peas and spinach for this.

No change at all. Haven't changed media in 1 month. Should I? I use prime water conditioner. Nothin else. No electric current. No fresheners.

I understand completely what you are doing and I will give whatever info I need to about my tanks.

I also have 2- 10 gallon tanks and A 37 that are doing fine. No problems whatsoever.

 

[em_witt]

Just had another angel die. No other symptoms other than the confusion and disorder.

 

[jlk]

Any chance the tank is planted and your running CO2? Your staple food is not expired and has not been exposed to the possibility of chemical contamination of any sort?

Aside from the plecos (we can come back to this in minute), there is nothing that would cause even mild concern here. Disorientation/dizziness followed by demise can sometimes be linked to a vitamin deficiency or to more obvious problems such as ammonia, nitrite or chlorine poisoning. Oxygen deprivation can cause these symptoms as well. Electrical current can cause the same symptoms. None of these appear to apply here and your tank is well established with solid parameters and is well maintained. Your feeding a quality food source as well. You have not changed or added anything.

So, let's return to the plecos. They were the first to die, correct? Aside from the fighting, did they appear healthy before you added them? Absolutely no even slightly odd symptoms or discolorations? Did they die immediately (within 24hrs) or after days? Any symptoms at/upon death? I am trying to figure out if they were the source of whatever may be affecting your tank or if its just coincidence that you added them and then something went south in the tank at the same time that is not disease related.

There are some uncommon viral and bacterial diseases that can affect the brain and CNS causing odd symptoms and demise. Viral diseases are not treatable and generally infections in the brain and CNS are difficult to treat. But its odd that the plecos showed no symptoms prior to adding them to the tank. As everyone is eating well, an option is to start feeding them an antibiotic food (low impact on bacteria) or dose the tank with antibiotics in random hope that its something bacterial that is treatable.

I am honestly baffled right now as to what may be happening or why. And with other healthy tanks that do not have this issue, your water source itself as a possible cause can be likely ruled out but I am afraid I don't have a specific answer as to why this is happening. So, I am going to think some more on this. Hopefully, someone else may have some ideas or something that I am missing here!

In the meantime, do you by chance have methylene blue? I honestly don't know if it will do anything at all here because I do not know what the cause is but it will not hurt to try putting a fish that is vaguely starting to show symptoms in a methylene blue bath. Just a random thought as it does help increase blood oxygen levels.

Let us know if you can think of anything else (even something minor) that might help figure out this mystery.

 

[jlk]

This is something obvious and you likely already checked but I figured I would ask just in case. Have you checked the tank temp? Sometimes heaters malfunction resulting in the temp running high and resulting in a lack of oxygen. It also would not hurt to do extra wcs of 50% even as often as daily just as a random precaution in the event something did wind up in the tank that is unknown to anyone.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas here, please let us know!

 

[em_witt]

Any chance the tank is planted and your running CO2? Your staple food is not expired and has not been exposed to the possibility of chemical contamination of any sort?

Aside from the plecos (we can come back to this in minute), there is nothing that would cause even mild concern here. Disorientation/dizziness followed by demise can sometimes be linked to a vitamin deficiency or to more obvious problems such as ammonia, nitrite or chlorine poisoning. Oxygen deprivation can cause these symptoms as well. Electrical current can cause the same symptoms. None of these appear to apply here and your tank is well established with solid parameters and is well maintained. Your feeding a quality food source as well. You have not changed or added anything.

So, let's return to the plecos. They were the first to die, correct? Aside from the fighting, did they appear healthy before you added them? Absolutely no even slightly odd symptoms or discolorations? Did they die immediately (within 24hrs) or after days? Any symptoms at/upon death? I am trying to figure out if they were the source of whatever may be affecting your tank or if its just coincidence that you added them and then something went south in the tank at the same time that is not disease related.

There are some uncommon viral and bacterial diseases that can affect the brain and CNS causing odd symptoms and demise. Viral diseases are not treatable and generally infections in the brain and CNS are difficult to treat. But its odd that the plecos showed no symptoms prior to adding them to the tank. As everyone is eating well, an option is to start feeding them an antibiotic food (low impact on bacteria) or dose the tank with antibiotics in random hope that its something bacterial that is treatable.

I am honestly baffled right now as to what may be happening or why. And with other healthy tanks that do not have this issue, your water source itself as a possible cause can be likely ruled out but I am afraid I don't have a specific answer as to why this is happening. So, I am going to think some more on this. Hopefully, someone else may have some ideas or something that I am missing here!

In the meantime, do you by chance have methylene blue? I honestly don't know if it will do anything at all here because I do not know what the cause is but it will not hurt to try putting a fish that is vaguely starting to show symptoms in a methylene blue bath. Just a random thought as it does help increase blood oxygen levels.

Let us know if you can think of anything else (even something minor) that might help figure out this mystery.

No co2 but the tank is planted.
Food isn't expired
Plecos weren't first. They contributed to the death count tho.
They were both mature males so that could be part of it.
They died within 24 hrs of entering.
No odd discoloration.
No symptoms at all on the plecos.
I have well water and it comes out at 7.6 ph and same kh as tank. So no fluctuations. I do have methane blue. Could I treat the whole 75 bc I don't have a "sick" fish at the moment?
Temp is good at 76* F

 

[jlk]

Thanks! No treating the tank with MB. Great old school med but it will decimate all of your good bacteria so its best used in qt or as a bath or you will be dealing with an uncycled 75g with fish that are having major issues.

Still thinking on this...I feel like I am missing something here.

 

[em_witt]

Well thanks for being such a help and I hope we can figure this out.

 

[Delapool]

No co2 but the tank is planted.
Food isn't expired
Plecos weren't first. They contributed to the death count tho.
They were both mature males so that could be part of it.
They died within 24 hrs of entering.
No odd discoloration.
No symptoms at all on the plecos.
I have well water and it comes out at 7.6 ph and same kh as tank. So no fluctuations. I do have methane blue. Could I treat the whole 75 bc I don't have a "sick" fish at the moment?
Temp is good at 76* F

Tagging along and a little surprised on the pleco death in 24hrs. Throwing it out here - do you run anything different in your other tanks / filters? Carbon? I saw prime was used but just in case there was anything different between tanks.

Was there any order to the fish deaths - size, etc.

 

[em_witt]

Tagging along and a little surprised on the pleco death in 24hrs. Throwing it out here - do you run anything different in your other tanks / filters? Carbon? I saw prime was used but just in case there was anything different between tanks.

Was there any order to the fish deaths - size, etc.

Both plecos were mature males. The angels I had for almost 1 year and the Cory was 2-3 years old. So the fish that died were all mature. I run no carbon. 2 heaters(marineland) sun sun filter 525gph. Nothing else

 

[jlk]

How is everyone doing today?

I still feel like I am missing something here but I just can not put my finger on it. I do not like taking a 'wait and see' approach with something that is obviously very lethal but I honestly do not know what to suggest for treatment because we do not know what we are treating here. The best I can offer is what I stated earlier with water changes and perhaps even throwing a bag of new carbon into a filter just case something unknown contaminated the water.

Beyond this, we can take stabs in the dark and try treating with antibiotics or an anti-parasite/protozoa type med such as Paraguard and see if they have any effect. Its something that I generally do not like to recommend as I really am not sure what is affecting your fish. Keep us posted!

 

[em_witt]

Tagging along and a little surprised on the pleco death in 24hrs. Throwing it out here - do you run anything different in your other tanks / filters? Carbon? I saw prime was used but just in case there was anything different between tanks.

Was there any order to the fish deaths - size, etc.

Both plecos were mature males. The angels I had for almost 1 year and the Cory was 2-3 years old. So the fish that died were all mature. I run no carbon. 2 heaters(marineland) sun sun filter 525gph. Nothing else

 

[aquaticlife32]

Honestly reading all this it has been baffling. I have never heard of a dies ease killing that many fish within such a short time period after symptoms. I think that all your fish probably have this by now and that the disease just doesn't show itself until it's final stages when it seems to be un treatable. I would set up a quarantine and put all the survivors in it. And start treating with different anti bio dicots but one at a time and see if you notice any more deaths or if it stops suddenly and seems to be cured. As for the main tank once the fish are out I would raise the temp pretty high like 85 degrees as this with most parasites speeds up there life span. Then by the time you put the fish back in it should be cured hopefully but lower temp back to reg. before putting them back in. Any recent new plants you have added?

 

[em_witt]

Honestly reading all this it has been baffling. I have never heard of a dies ease killing that many fish within such a short time period after symptoms. I think that all your fish probably have this by now and that the disease just doesn't show itself until it's final stages when it seems to be un treatable. I would set up a quarantine and put all the survivors in it. And start treating with different anti bio dicots but one at a time and see if you notice any more deaths or if it stops suddenly and seems to be cured. As for the main tank once the fish are out I would raise the temp pretty high like 85 degrees as this with most parasites speeds up there life span. Then by the time you put the fish back in it should be cured hopefully but lower temp back to reg. before putting them back in. Any recent new plants you have added?

No new plants in 8-10 months. Well that 75gallon would have to be the qt bc I only have 2-10 gallons so they won't fit.