Urgent - Fantail Fin Rot (but no clear reason why)

[JoSalt]

Hi there

We desperately need your help. We've got an established 120 litre cold water tank (about 1 year) and a 150 litre tropical (6 years). The issue we're facing is with new fish in the cold tank.

Ater settling 1 tri-colour veil, 1 bronze veil and 1 pewter oranda in, almost immediately, we knew the tri-colour wasnt right - she lay on the bottom of the tank and was very quiet. We assumed she was stressed so kept the tank calm. Within 24 hours she developed fin rot, within 48 hours almost 1/2 of her tail had gone. We removed our established fish (2 old tri's, 1 young-ish baby) and monitored, treated and maintained her. Almost 1/2 her tail went in 48 hours - so to say severe would be an understatement.

We started quarantine and treatment immediately - we did not wait. We treated with Esha 2000; which helped a little. We did a 20% water change just in case. But it was too vigorous.

Within 48 hours, the Pewter Oranda also developed rot - he lost 1/3 of his tail by Wednesday (72 hours).

The final bonze veil is now developing it, at about 25% so far. It is uncontrollable.

We understand that water quality and stress can cause fin rot so the water was tested and results at perfect on across the board. Even i was a little shocked as i thought this would be the obvious problem. None of the existing fish were chasing, but we removed them anyway (theyre fine) and the tank was kept calm and steady. The temperature is at 20. Ammonia at 0. There is nothing obvious which we can find to be causing this...

Today, the tri-colour and pewter fish died.

The bronze is developing, quickly. I dont know what else to do... please help

Jo

 

[smomus]

What substrate do you have?

 

[Fishkeeper26]

Unfortunately the tank you have can't support that many Goldfish, so I can't help but think there's a problem with the water.

What were the exact readings for the test?
What did you use to test?
Did you quarantine the new fish before adding it to the display tank?
What's your water change schedule?

 

[JoSalt]

Its a medium gauge gravel. We vacuumed it when we water changed, but do this whenever we water change so its never really horrible, but never spotless either if you see what i mean.
Should add too that its a fluval (pretty sure its a 204) filter which had new carbon and media over the course of a new months, which has been running with the new components for 3 months now.

 

[Alyxx]

What are your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels? Do you have a test kit?

 

[smomus]

Unfortunately the tank you have can't support that many Goldfish, so I can't help but think there's a problem with the water.

What were the exact readings for the test?
What did you use to test?
Did you quarantine the new fish before adding it to the display tank?
What's your water change schedule?

I agree with this. Also, the reason I asked about your substrate, there have been others here lately that have had issues like you are describing and when they tore apart the tank the gravel was NASTY!! Even tho they thought their gravel vaccing had been good. Test everything that fishkeeper suggested and if that is all up to par, scoop out some of your gravel and see if perchance it needs to be cleaned more.

 

[JoSalt]

Unfortunately the tank you have can't support that many Goldfish, so I can't help but think there's a problem with the water.

What were the exact readings for the test?
What did you use to test?
Did you quarantine the new fish before adding it to the display tank?
What's your water change schedule?

NO3 @ 10, NO2 @ 0, GH @ 16, KH @ 10, PH @ 8, CL2 @ 0, Ammonia @ 0
Using Tetra 6 in 1 strips and Tetra NH 3 and 4. We've ordered a better kit, should arrive tomorrow so will let you know what that says too.

We didnt quarantine before hand - we should have.... but our small spare tank wasn't here... we now have it back and is holding our 2 oldies and 1 baby to get them away from the rot...

when you say the tank we have cant hold that many gold fish, do you think it is over stocked??

xx

 

[smomus]

120= approx 30 gallons...right?
I think the general rule is 20 gallons for first fancy, 10g for each additional. Unless its a common/comet. Then they need a pond

 

[JoSalt]

I agree with this. Also, the reason I asked about your substrate, there have been others here lately that have had issues like you are describing and when they tore apart the tank the gravel was NASTY!! Even tho they thought their gravel vaccing had been good. Test everything that fishkeeper suggested and if that is all up to par, scoop out some of your gravel and see if perchance it needs to be cleaned more.

Good idea - i'm going to check regardless. Do you think the oldies are just hardened to whatever it is?! I dont get how they are ok, and the baby is fine. (its not their baby btw, we got him about 3 weeks ago - straight in, no problems). People say they are subject to stress but they were whipped out that tank and into another one with water from the 120l pronto and theyve been happy as larry as always!

xx Jo

 

[smomus]

Good idea - i'm going to check regardless. Do you think the oldies are just hardened to whatever it is?! I dont get how they are ok, and the baby is fine. (its not their baby btw, we got him about 3 weeks ago - straight in, no problems). People say they are subject to stress but they were whipped out that tank and into another one with water from the 120l pronto and theyve been happy as larry as always!

xx Jo

My thought is that there might have been a fin nip that because of the water chemistry got infected then spread. Never know tho! Can't hurt to do a good gravel cleaning. And I'm glad you are getting a better test kit. What did you order?

 

[JoSalt]

120= approx 30 gallons...right?
I think the general rule is 20 gallons for first fancy, 10g for each additional. Unless its a common/comet. Then they need a pond

Oh my god... we've massively overstocked it...

 

[Fishkeeper26]

Oh my god... we've massively overstocked it...

It's no big deal, you didn't know any better. Everyone makes mistakes.

The test strips aren't very accurate, so once you get your test kit tomorrow it will give us a better picture of what your water parameters are!

 

[jlk]

Yes, 120l is only @30g- this can support exactly two fancy goldfish that are not full grown. Full grown, this may even be cramped for a single fancy which can potentially grow 12inches with adequate water, care & diet.

Just so I am clear on what happened, two new fish developed fin rot & died within 72hrs? This is beyond fin rot unless theres something seriously amiss with your water but this will remain unknown until you have a proper test kit. You also mentioned the fish became worse after a water change- exactly how did you acclimate the fish to the tank initially? Some more information will help to rule things in or out but I suspect you may have a columnaris infection here.

 

[smomus]

Everyone does make mistakes! I'm sure your conditions were much better then what so many others have kept their goldfish in! At least you have been doing water changes and such. Some don't even do that. What filter are you running on your tank?

 

[JoSalt]

My thought is that there might have been a fin nip that because of the water chemistry got infected then spread. Never know tho! Can't hurt to do a good gravel cleaning. And I'm glad you are getting a better test kit. What did you order?

Its a Tetra Laborett. Is that ok?

xxJo

 

[jlk]

Oh my god... we've massively overstocked it...

I am just curious how many goldfish were in this tank?

 

[JoSalt]

Yes, 120l is only @30g- this can support exactly two fancy goldfish that are not full grown. Full grown, this may even be cramped for a single fancy which can potentially grow 12inches with adequate water, care & diet.

Just so I am clear on what happened, two new fish developed fin rot & died within 72hrs? This is beyond fin rot unless theres something seriously amiss with your water but this will remain unknown until you have a proper test kit. You also mentioned the fish became worse after a water change- exactly how did you acclimate the fish to the tank initially? Some more information will help to rule things in or out but I suspect you may have a columnaris infection here.

Correct - 2 developed it and died within 72 hours. The tri-colour got it first (it was quiet and listless within an hour of putting her in). By the next morning, the rot had set in. She was always worse... The pewter developed it the second day. But this morning both were swimming, eating, seemed spritely... and today the conditions of them reversed. Tri Colour started to look better, petwer got much worse. Then, pewter died this evening and about an hour later, so did tri-colour... The water changed helped tri-colour a lot.. but seemed to make pewter worse. But then they were also having Esha 2000 so not sure how much of it was due to that

The bronze (3rd) has got it starting, about 1/4 on one side.

We acclimated by adding the bag they came in (seperate bags) to the tank as floating and adding a little of the water over about an hour. When we added them in fully, we netted them.. we didnt add the water they came in to our tank.

 

[JoSalt]

I am just curious how many goldfish were in this tank?

2 oldies who are about 3 inches inc tails, 1 baby whos about an 1inch inc tail and we added 3 more... who were all about 3 inches...

Its sounds SO stupid but they have LOADS of room... its a big deep tank... I feel so stupid. Considering how long weve had our tropical, we know not to overstock and we are competent enought as some of ours in there are 4 years old now... what occured us to get more?!

 

[jlk]

I am not familiar with the esha product & I dont know how this factors into the situation. I suspect either theres a serious infection and/or your ammonia/nitrite spiked quite high with the addition of 3 goldfish at once. This would also result in the symptoms you have seen/their demise. The strips are basically useless & do not tell the whole story here of what exactly happened to the water quality in the 24-48hr time frame following the addition of the new fish. I suspect water quality played a big factor here.

 

[JoSalt]

Everyone does make mistakes! I'm sure your conditions were much better then what so many others have kept their goldfish in! At least you have been doing water changes and such. Some don't even do that. What filter are you running on your tank?

Thank you Its a Fluval - 99% sure its a 240.