VHS (viral hemorrhagic septicemia)

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MonkeyMonk86

Aquarium Advice FINatic
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
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Chicago, Il.
A while ago I posted this link:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/what-disease-killed-him-318636.html
I was determined to find the cause of the false julii " Ebola" looking death. Today, I spoke with my daughter in vet school and she told me it sounded just like VHS, which is most common in the wild caught and in the fisheries. After looking at the photos of fish with VHS.
https://www.google.com/search?q=fis...Ifo8AHp4IDgCg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=470

And reading about the disease, I'm sure that VHS is the disease that was killing my "julii". The causative virus is novirhabdovirus
Vermont Fish & Wildlife
"Fish infected with VHS may exhibit minor external hemorrhaging in the form of red pin-point spots or larger patches, particularly around the head. However, some infected fish may not exhibit any external signs at all. Internally, organs often display multiple hemorrhages, particularly in the liver, spleen, intestines and swim bladder. Sick fish often appear lethargic, swim in circles, or lie motionless just below the water surface. Although not all infected fish develop the disease, they can be carriers and have the ability to spread the disease to other." ....

"The virus can persist in water in an infective state without a fish host for up to 14 days. It has also been documented that the virus is not always killed by freezing infected fish. In a hatchery or fish holding facility, transfer of the VHS virus on contaminated surfaces of gear and equipment presents a substantial hazard."...

"Healthy fish can also be infected when they eat an infected fish. Infected fish and water can easily spread the virus if they are released into a new water body. It is important that anglers, boaters and other water users do not move fish and water from one waterbody to another."

I'm posting this as a new thread b/c no one (to my knowledge) has posted about VHS and since it showed up in my newly purchased false julii, it's out there in the fish we are buying, too....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hemorrhagic_septicemia
"There may also be a nervous form of the disease where fish are constantly flashing and showing abnormal behaviour.[41]"

Here is a google page with more VHS links:
https://www.google.com/search?q=fis...=cAIfVMrRK-Gu8AHqlIHgBw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAA&dpr=2

Currently, (to my knowledge at this time) there is no treatment. It effects both fresh and marine fish.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
Ouch, nasty one. Thanks for the follow-up post.

The melafix suggestion from the lfs surprised me a bit. I guess over here it would be worth a try with pimafix but idk I'd imagine the mortality rate to be pretty high.
 
I agree with you about what the guy suggested, but they had very limited meds at that LFS. If I encounter it again, I think I would euthanize everyone in the tank ASAP. It was horrible to watch that obviously painful death.

I think this is a real problem b/c it's viral, uncureable and fish without symptoms can be carriers.

I researched viral and fish, in general, ... The only thing I found was using the herb goldenseal, but no dosage on the goldenseal.

The one good thing is that without a host the virus dies in 14 days.

I'm really leery about new fish now...


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
This is just another example of why it so important these days to quarantine every new fish you plan on keeping. It would be a shame to have a beautiful tank up and running and well stocked only to add that one final fish to your collection that wipes out the whole tank. :(

There used to be meds available for viral infections for fish however, as many meds have, they are no longer available to the general public.

Thanks for the info
 
This is just another example of why it so important these days to quarantine every new fish you plan on keeping. It would be a shame to have a beautiful tank up and running and well stocked only to add that one final fish to your collection that wipes out the whole tank. :(

There used to be meds available for viral infections for fish however, as many meds have, they are no longer available to the general public.

Thanks for the info


Would you know of anything to treat it at all? Salt? Temp?
 
Andy, like Delapool asked, do you remember any of the antivirals that used to be available?

It says it dies in mammals/humans b/c of our body temp.

The only antiviral I could find mentioned relative to fish was goldenseal.

For humans, dogs and cats L-lysine is used.

(If my whole tank was at risk, I think I'd guess on goldenseal and add l-lysine turn the thermometer as high as it would go and wrap the tank with an electric blanket. If any fish showed a symptom, then euthanize all. Disinfect and wait 14 days. One reading said it died after 14 days without a host. )

One thing I learned from reading about VHS is to bury our dead fish and not flush them. We need to keep the diseases out of the water as much as possible.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
I don't believe salt works against viral conditions but temp might. Unfortunately, most of the meds I was talking about came through a company called Aquatronics and they are no longer in business.
At this point, I would ask your Daughter what antiviral meds are still available on the open market or through a veterinarian ( if necessary) to treat the fish. I am not familiar with goldenseal so I can't say if it is any good or not. Unfortunately, it's been too long and I don;t have an old Aquatronics catalog to tell you what meds I used. I just know I used some that were specifically for viral issues especially when we first received wild fish.

Hope this helps.
 
I'll ask Kt next time she calls. She is taking her boards 1st week of December, so I hear from her about once a month. Her rotations are 12+ hrs. with off hour call backs. I'll send her an email and maybe she can ask the one professor/vet who does fish.

Your advise to me via message about buying from stores using UV light on their water column is great advise!!! And, about using UV on my QT tanks, too!!! I think both are the best advise relative to VHS!!! Really excellent thinking!!!


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
I'll ask Kt next time she calls. She is taking her boards 1st week of December, so I hear from her about once a month. Her rotations are 12+ hrs. with off hour call backs. I'll send her an email and maybe she can ask the one professor/vet who does fish.



(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)


Yes please if possible, would be great to know anything. I guess I can understand why the meds are off the market but I think it is somewhat of a shame as from what I understand it's nothing to do with aquarium owners and is other people buying them for other purposes.
 
Sorry guys, wasn't able to find out.

My daughter responded:

"The advice I would give to the people on your forum are to go to a vet that sees fish, tell them your concerns and that you are suspecting a virus. The vet will have a good idea on what to look for. They can run tests to see what disease is causing the signs (after all it may not be a virus). And then they can give you an idea on the medications used to treat that disease. I hope that helps!"


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
Yes, goldenseal is a popular natural. I think health shops and vitamin shops have it.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
The email has been sent. This is the article about goldenseal: ( skip to "Other studies confirm Goldenseal’s antibiotic potency")
Goldenseal Proves to be Natural Antibiotic and Antiviral | Health Impact News


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)

This article is from holistic site with very limited supportive evidence. It also cites very specific studies in respect to goldenseal that were performed within laboratory settings. Its anti-viral and anti-biotic capacities are only cited from research upon cells, not upon actual humans or other creatures. Its stated anti-viral abilities were only demonstrated upon the H1N1 influenza virus.

I would suggest great caution in even considering adding an unknown chemical to an aquatic environment. The only information that I could find in respect to goldenseal are studies performed upon rats and mice that prove it was carcinogenic. There are no known human or aquatic studies in respect to goldenseal.

The advice of seeking out veterinary counsel when dealing with a fish health issue of unknown origin is the best route in determining the actual agent of disease and the best venue for treatment. In respect to anti-virals, there are some vets that will prescribe them off label when appropriate and under supervision but the cost of these meds is astronomical. Just some things to consider in this discussion.
 
What the heck, I might as well ask. Are there any alternative plants or herbs that are of use in fish-keeping, mainly as meds?
 
Forgot about Kordon - will look them up. I guess the problem (assuming it may be possible), would be figuring out dosing as well.
 
I believe i have a 40g breeder with two breeding pairs that have this disease. I have one right now showing all the sign and am treating with furan 2 because furan 2 because the furan 2 box says it should heal the sores.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Aquarium Advice mobile app
 
If it's VHS, then it's not curable. The only thing I believe we could maybe do is raise the temp so high that the virus dies. It says it dies in humans and other mammals b/c our temp is too high.

Possibly, try raising the temp as high as possible without killing the fish. If you have one of those 1 temp heaters, you could try wrapping the aquarium in an electric blanket.

I'm so sorry! I think this disease is starting to show up a lot in the aquarist trade.

Also, put a UV on the tank if you have any unaffected fish.

Keep us posted. Very interested. And, post pics if you can.


(Friend of Bill W., One day at a time)
 
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