water change while MelaFix-ing?

[JohnPaul]

new tank, gone 10 days, now partially cycled. :-/ Ideas?

Hi all, here's my situation...

About 2 1/2 weeks ago I set up a new 29 gal fw tank. Drove over an hour to a lfs that had Bio-Spira. Added the Bio-Spira and a first batch of fish (7 zebra danios and 3 cory cats), added 5 dwarf neon (praecox) rainbowfish two days later.

For the first 6 days, all seemed good. Using a reagent test kit, ammonia and nitrite levels stayed at zero, as did nitrate. Some cloudiness was in the water, which I assumed was the bacterial bloom from the Bio-Spira.

Then on day 6 I got a phone call from home; it was my parents telling me my grandmother had passed away. So I made hasty arrangements to get a friend to fish-sit my aquarium (I left feeding directions for him) and I went home to Chicago. Then due to the big snowstorm, I got stranded in Chicago for several days longer than expected (I was trying to get back to the Boston area...lol...), so it ended up being 10 days before I could get home and test the aquarium.

So today (day 17 since the beginning) I tested things. This is what I got:

-- pH 7.1
-- Ammonia ~ 1 ppm
-- Nitrite ~ 0.5 ppm
-- Nitrate ~ 5 ppm

The cloudiness in the water seemed the same or even a bit worse. I am currently using the filter that came with the tank (a TopFin model, which quite frankly doesn't really seem to be filtering much).

My friend told me one of the zebras had died (no obvious signs of disease), but otherwise the fish all are very active, look perfectly healthy, when I go to feed them (or even come anywhere near the tank) it is like a feeding frenzy, except for the corys who just keep "doing their thing" along the bottom, oblivious to the rest of the world around them lol.

Anyway, I got worried about that ammonia reading so I did about a 15% pwc just a little while ago.

At this point, how worried do I need to be? And what course of action would you recommend? Do I need another dose of Bio-Spira or should I just be patient with things as they are? Should I get an AquaClear filter to replace this TopFin model? Any suggestions at all are appreciated!

 

[Menagerie]

Since there is a nitrate reading, the tank is cycled and now it's time for weekly PWC of 25%. However, you need to get those ammonia and nitrite readings to 0 ppm. Do a 50% PWC and then some 25% PWC over the next few days and all should be well.

 

[TomK2]

Hmm. I second what Menagerie said. Keep up with the water changes. Did the dead zebra sit in the tank for a while? An unnoticed dead fish can foul things up and raise your ammonia. Be stingy with the feeding for a while. In the absence of a decaying fish or overfeeding, It sounds like another quasi-successful bio-spira start. The biospira worked because you got nitrites and nitrates in just a week or two, but you still had some ammonia and nitrite to deal with. I am sure it will quiet down in a week or two, so just try and keep the ammonia and nitrites as low as you can. Good luck!

 

[JohnPaul]

UPDATE

Well, the last two days I have done about 40% water changes each day. That has brought the levels down to:

Ammonia: between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: between 0 and 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: between 0 and 5 ppm

I also decided that after reading various reports, an AquaClear filter was the way to go. So I now have two hob filters running; the TopFin one that came with the tank, and my new AquaClear one (rated for up to 30 gallons). I figure I will keep this setup for a while, until I feel that the AquaClear has enough bacteria built up to do the job on its own.

Okay, that's the good news. Now the bad. :x

I am pretty sure my rainbows all have columnaris. Earlier today when I was looking at them I noticed one of my two males' lips (mostly his upper lip) seemed "puffy" and white colored. Also, the ends seemed almost "flat" rather than rounded (if that makes sense.) Not stringy, not cottony...just swollen, a bit flat, and lighter in color than usual. So I looked at my others carefully and noticed the same on the other four, though to a far lesser degree. (Basically, if it wasn't for the one who had it worst, I don't think I would have casually noticed anything on the other four.) From reading these boards and other sites, my best guess is it is the very early stages of columnaris.

SO...I went searching on these forums, and ran across this thread (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=41741&highlight=columnaris) which seems almost identical to my situation. Since TankGirl recommended the MelaFix option, that is what I decided to do. So tonight I went to my lfs, bought MelaFix and PimaFix, and after my aforementioned 40% water change, added my first dose. And yes, I did remember to remove the carbon from both of my filters first.

However, now I find myself in a bit of a quandry. In order to let the meds work, I need to dose for 7 days without doing a water change. Yet since I still have ammonia and nitrite, that seems to indicate water changes are still needed. (No doubt the stress of the ammonia levels is what led to the rainbows developing columnaris to begin with.)

So what do I do? :? Keep changing water (may be 20-25% per day) or stop all water changes for the next week? I'm open to all suggestions!

P.S. -- None of the rainbows display any visible signs of being sick--no labored breathing, no sitting on the bottom or hanging near the surface, and they still have voracious appetites. And as far as I can tell, none of the zebras or corys seem to have caught this...though the zebras are so dang fast, and still relatively small, so that if they did I probably wouldn't be able to tell.

P.P.S. -- I don't own any other tank to use as a qt and don't really have the money to invest in one unless it is absolutely, positively necessary.

 

[JohnPaul]

I started a thread in the "Getting Started" forum which, unfortunately, now needs to be morphed into a "sick fish" forum.

The short & quick question is: in a tank not yet fully cycled (ammonia between 0.25 and 0.5 ppm) where some fish have the very early signs of columnaris (in the form of cotton mouth), I am going with a MelaFix/PimaFix treatment and am not sure whether I should continue to do pwc's everyday (to help with ammonia/nitrite levels) or to hold off on pwc's during the course of MelaFix treatment.

For all the details, please see this thread: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=42278

If anyone can help with a little advice, feel free to reply either in that thread or this one, whatever is easier for you, as I will be regularly checking both.

Thanks!

 

[Menagerie]

Continue with the PWCs and add back the relative amount of Mela/Pimafix taken out.

 

[savga]

The extra water changes shouldn't matter as long as you add the Melafix and Pimafix after the water change. The active ingredients in those meds are volatile and dissipate pretty rapidly anyway.

 

[JohnPaul]

Ok, thanks to both of you for replying. Only 2 days into the treatments, and I guess the good news is that none of the five look any worse, though they don't look better either. Still, I'll take that as a good sign that at the very least the progression of the disease seems to be halted. I'll keep posting updates as appropriate.

 

[Menagerie]

I am pretty sure my rainbows all have columnaris.

Personally, I would treat with a stronger med. Check this link: http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm I like kanamycin based products for bacterial infections.

 

[JohnPaul]

Menagerie, would Kanamycin wipe out my biofilter? That was my only concern about using something like that. Since I don't have a qt and I am having some problems getting my main tank fully cycled, I was hoping to avoid a med that would set me back in that process.

Is there a particular Kanamycin med people would recommend?

 

[JohnPaul]

Update again...

Been a total of 4 days since I began the MelaFix/PimaFix.

ammonia = 0 (thank God)
nitrite = 0.25 ppm (almost there)
nitrate = 5 ppm

Mouth areas on my rainbows are the same (not better, not worse), however, one of the rainbows looks to have the very beginnings of fin rot, and one of my zebra danios seems to have caught the mouth-area infection.

In light of this, decided that MelaFix/PimaFix alone is definitely not doing the job. Was hoping to find some Kanamycin but I checked two lfs, neither stocked it. Not wanting to delay any longer (it was around 9:00 PM so going to a third lfs was out of the question), I purchased Maracyn and Maracyn-II. Just put in the first dose tonight so we'll see where it leads.

Only really encouraging sign is that all fish still have their typical huge appetites and none are showing even the slightest behavioral signs of being stressed/sick. In fact, as the maracyn and m-II tablets were dissolving in the tank (if you've seen it happen, little small chunks break off and float away), most of my zebras and rainbowfish would swoop in and actually "eat" the little chunks. I'm telling you, if it's in the tank and it's moving, my fish think it's food.